Churchill MK IV ammunition questions/suggestions (6 pounder version)

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Churchill MK IV ammunition questions/suggestions (6 pounder version)

Postby Mitchverr » Fri 21 Apr 2017 12:46

Though about making this thread on paradox forums aswell but eh.

So from what I have gathered over limited reading, the APDS ammunition for the tank was given out as quickly as possible to those units in frontline positions, in fact supposedly some operations such as operation Epsom were delayed in part to give time for APDS rounds to trickle down to their churchill support group armed with 6 pounders in order to assist fighting german cats. (note: operation epsom was specifically an operation that was done by 15th scottish division, ie the infantry division ingame in 26–30 June)

Firstly, I was curious if it was true as to happening, IE the operation getting a slight delay and 1 of the reasons being APDS ammo?

Secondly, what are peoples thoughts on this happening for the churchills in game right now and to an extent, the 6 pounders?

The main thing I could see happening is that it gives 1 set of tanks capable of fighting german tanks on a more even playing field, though still extremely slow and lacking frontal armour, it would allow for more "mobile" (lol) warfare for the infantry division.

The second thing this would do is differenciate it more from the mk VI with the 75mm gun, which currently has slightly more armour and HE ammunition, though a slightly slower rate of fire it has the same AP, making it a bit more useful simply due to having HE and more chance to survive.

If it was to happen, how much APDS ammunition should each tank get? Bare in mind that the accuracy of the guns atm is pretty rough, meaning that a very low number wouldnt be helpful as it would price hike the vehicle for little gain. Perhaps 10 rounds of APDS in the tanks? And if given, what AP would it be, i am unsure on what the current stats are taken from, but people say 100m range and 1 AP = 10mm of pen power. However sources seem to differ on the effective AP of the round and others dont state what kind of target they fired on (such as 140mm at 400m but doesnt say if its a flat target, angled 30 degrees like all other target shooting usually is with other sources claiming higher numbers, which i dont think are accurate). So at 100m range what would it be as i cant find any info here, close to the 17 pounders ap? Though the 17 pounder has 200m more range.

In the end, I was thinking it would add up to be something like
  • 10-15 rounds APDS,
  • AP 14(using 400m range numbers)-16(adding 20mm of pen lost for 300m range IRL reasonable guess for 100m?)
  • make it 150 points pending its AP which is the same as the challenger which has 200m more range, more speed but 2 less armour? As the ammunition is limited, not accurate and the vehicle only fires AP rounds with a weak frontal armour.
  • Also a reduction to a single card perhaps as 2 cards might be a bit much?

The ammunition could ofcourse go to other 57mm/6 pounder guns too for price increases.

Lastly, I know "infantry tanks not meant to fight normal tanks" however I ask this;
1. Why did the churchills still have 6 pounders? IIRC pretty much every other tank in theatre had their 6 pounders replaced for the 75mm gun and had 17 pounder tanks given to them to do the job of fighting heavy tanks, I have read that the reason this didnt happen for the churchills in total was due to the black prince project running into issues and no 17 pounder infantry tank existed so 6 pounders remained specifically due to their anti tank ability.
2. Why did they get APDS rounds if they were not supposed to be able to defend the unit from tanks? :D

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