The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

User avatar
Aikmofobi
Lieutenant
Posts: 1363
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2012 23:04
Location: Northern Sweden
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby Aikmofobi » Fri 28 Apr 2017 13:55

Aikmofobi wrote:-snip-
Slow as feck addendum:
At the same time though, making sure that any division could face up against any other would just give better gameplay. Wouldn't want to play a 10v10 and discover that the opponent in my "lane" has an insta-GG-inducing hard counter to my entire division.

User avatar
Operation Ivy
Master Sergeant
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed 5 Oct 2016 00:56
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby Operation Ivy » Fri 28 Apr 2017 14:09

Mike wrote:There was 2v2 ranked in RD. Just not very many people played it.


wow i really completely forgot about it, thanks for reminding me.

I guess there were reasons why it wasn't very popular in general and less popular than 1v1. One of them is certainly the small player base in ranked.

User avatar
HaryPL
Lieutenant
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon 3 Dec 2012 01:41
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby HaryPL » Fri 28 Apr 2017 15:49

Wargame is pro-casual in design. If you want trollhard cheese of 1vs1 plz go to Starcraft or any other RTS that promotes them.
Here we have/had 1000s units not to pick 20best /least balanced of them and never use any other ever again but to have fun with casual or flavor decks and diversity; without one-and-only gameflow based on APM.

Sleksa
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2265
Joined: Tue 14 May 2013 12:26
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby Sleksa » Fri 28 Apr 2017 16:53

Operation Ivy wrote:Tell me then, why wasn't there a 2v2 ranked function in Red Dragon?

And you could consider 2v2 balanced to some point even though nobody really pushed for it so nobody can really tell.


Like someone said there was a 2v2 ranked, but there was also a 2v2 money tournament in ALB

https://www.focus-home.com/en/news/592-esl-and-focus-home-interactive-join-forces-to-create-the-go4wargame-tournament-series

https://troublmaker.wordpress.com/tag/go4wargame/

At the start of red dragon there was basically only a single viable deck (mixed nato) in ranked play with a very rigid set of units inside it that were outperforming everything else massively. Maps were also incredibly skewed towards certain sides. The current iteration of wargame, even though it still has many faults, has still improved massively from where it was, and the perspective on it has nearly always been on both 1v1 as well as 2v2 games.

And there was massive amount of work done to balance the game since that tournament, with a lot of work having a focus on 2v2 spesifically. This included map balance suggestions (mostly on the marshal's forum), generic gameplay things/bugfixes like the infopanel abuse, a total tank & aircraft rework, infantry weapons rework, availability reworks, complete redoing of the deck system to get rid of predominantly mixed nato decks, as well as red/blue balance done throughout the history of RD and to smaller extent the previous titles. Several people also created balance modifications, of which daywalker's tank setup was later on used as a framework for the tank overhaul (http://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=45595)

The problem with 4v4's and 10v10's however doesn't really lie in individual unit stats, as much as it does with the fact that with a certain amount of players, income and availabilities, some things start to outclass a lot of others and it becomes possible to obtain critical masses of things that wouldn't really work on smaller amounts of players in the game. This is something that doesn't really only concern eugen's games, but rts games in general. Starcraft for example can at the very least be said to be fairly well balanced, but even it becomes incredibly skewed towards one or two spesific strategies when the game size goes above 2v2. Same can be said about pretty much every rts from age of empires to red alerts.
Image

User avatar
realfakealex
Lieutenant
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon 18 Feb 2013 11:59
Location: Kerbin
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby realfakealex » Fri 28 Apr 2017 17:22

Mike wrote:There was 2v2 ranked in RD. Just not very many people played it.




You should ask who is number 1 on the RD leaderboards how he got there :lol:

User avatar
Saavedra
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 505
Joined: Thu 10 Apr 2014 21:53
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby Saavedra » Fri 28 Apr 2017 18:21

Operation Ivy wrote:The game will be balanced around 1v1, simple as that.


Are you a dev, or are you just projecting what you want into this?

If you want 1v1 balance, I suggest you pick up Wargame Red Dragon, which is pretty much that (and it is from there that a number of its hugest problems stem from). SD does not seem to be following a symmetrical balance paradigm, and it makes the game quite interesting.

User avatar
Operation Ivy
Master Sergeant
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed 5 Oct 2016 00:56
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby Operation Ivy » Fri 28 Apr 2017 18:47

Nearly all rts games balance mainly around 1v1. SD won't be any different, i think. There might be balances changes concerning 2v2/3v3 but only if there is a major issue.

User avatar
wargamer1985
Brigadier
Posts: 3305
Joined: Sat 4 May 2013 00:36
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby wargamer1985 » Fri 28 Apr 2017 19:02

Panthers are not all that bad, at least in my experience. The only real suggestion I could make would be a general buff to the Shermans (11 AP for M4A1s and Sherman IIs, 5 HE for 75mm Shermans, 14 AP + 6 ACC for 76.2mm Shermans). Besides that, I think Panthers are perfectly fine in the way they work, they are expensive and I find that a player who employs too much confidence with his Panthers can be easily neutralized.
APPLY TO THE GLORIOUS CULT OF THE WARHAWK! LIBERATING NAZIS SINCE 1939!
Image

User avatar
Mike
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 12406
Joined: Thu 20 Feb 2014 01:09
Location: Virginia, United States of America
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby Mike » Sat 29 Apr 2017 02:40

realfakealex wrote:
Mike wrote:There was 2v2 ranked in RD. Just not very many people played it.




You should ask who is number 1 on the RD leaderboards how he got there :lol:


Tactical outplays!
Image
Courtesy of KattiValk

User avatar
Woozle
Captain
Posts: 1601
Joined: Sat 1 Feb 2014 09:22
Location: Heierlark Base, North Osea
Contact:

Re: The Panther Problem and You! (12th SS)

Postby Woozle » Sat 29 Apr 2017 04:20

Operation Ivy wrote:
The game will be balanced around 1v1, simple as that.


Then that is a problem, and it should be changed.

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests