PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

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Mike
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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby Mike » Mon 1 May 2017 02:19

captaincarnage wrote:
Mike wrote:I can't endorse this British biased thread.


You're fake news :x


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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby Pleb Squasher » Mon 1 May 2017 13:15

KattiValk wrote:I'd support a -5 cost buff.

captaincarnage wrote:You're fake news :x
We're all fake news.


Why only -5? Currently PzGren only fit their own niche, which also isn't especially useful, they still decisively lose up close. They don't seem strong enough to warrant costing any more than other rifle units unless they're consistently much stronger. 50% extra cost should arguably translate into 50% better performance, currently PzGren are only slightly better than comparable units, reliant on them being at MG range. Any other situation and their extra cost doesn't pay off which results in PzGren being pretty crap in practice.

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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby KattiValk » Mon 1 May 2017 14:53

Pleb Squasher wrote:They don't seem strong enough to warrant costing any more than other rifle units unless they're consistently much stronger. 50% extra cost should arguably translate into 50% better performance, currently PzGren are only slightly better than comparable units, reliant on them being at MG range. Any other situation and their extra cost doesn't pay off which results in PzGren being pretty crap in practice.
A 5 pt buff to start, to increase as necessary. Though, if Eugen patches like they patched RD, starting on 10 would be a better move.

They should certainly cost more, as it's not like they can't shoot at rifle or SMG range like the LMG-less Allied squads.

Also worth mentioning Arm. Rifles only come in HTs whereas the AT Panzergrens actually get trucks.

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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby Saavedra » Mon 1 May 2017 18:19

Pleb Squasher wrote:50% extra cost should arguably translate into 50% better performance


And if Steel Division seemed like it was going that way for balance, I would endorse this idea. However, I don´t think it is. The balance is asymmetrical, so units being more expensive for a worse performance is perfectly possible, if not logical at first sight.

The question becomes: where do Germans get a strength to counter this weakness?

I suspect that would be their vehicles, but that´s just my first, not well thought-out answer.

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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby wargamer1985 » Mon 1 May 2017 19:01

KattiValk wrote:I'd support a -5 cost buff.

Same here.

captaincarnage wrote:You're fake news :x
KattiValk wrote:We're all fake news.

Same here.
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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby Gronank » Mon 1 May 2017 19:06

1st: panzerfaust isn't worth 5 pts. Ability to kill armour is very useful, but it saps the cost efficiency in fighting infantry too much. The difference between (pz)grenadiers with and without panzerfausts should be done with availability.
2nd: the price-to-power discrepency between grenadiers, pz grenadiers and allied infantry is too great if 20pts is the base line, 20-25-30 is too steep for what you get capability wise. 25-30-35 is better but should be coupled with an overall survivability increase for infantry.
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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby wargamer1985 » Mon 1 May 2017 19:06

Saavedra wrote:
Pleb Squasher wrote:50% extra cost should arguably translate into 50% better performance


And if Steel Division seemed like it was going that way for balance, I would endorse this idea. However, I don´t think it is. The balance is asymmetrical, so units being more expensive for a worse performance is perfectly possible, if not logical at first sight.

The question becomes: where do Germans get a strength to counter this weakness?

I suspect that would be their vehicles, but that´s just my first, not well thought-out answer.

Asymmetrical does not mean that units which perform worse should cost more, let us not ride a slippery slope here.
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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby Operation Ivy » Mon 1 May 2017 19:31

Asymmetrical would for example mean that they cost the same but rifles win in cqc while grens win on long range. Point value has very little to do with it.

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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby FrangibleCover » Mon 1 May 2017 22:01

Operation Ivy wrote:Asymmetrical would for example mean that they cost the same but rifles win in cqc while grens win on long range. Point value has very little to do with it.

Or asymmetrical could mean that German infantry is overpriced and German FSVs are underpriced. I don't think German FSVs are underpriced, I'm just saying there's more than one way to skin a cat (and bolt the armour to a Pershing :D ).

Mike wrote:I can't endorse this British biased thread.

I'm not actually certain what you mean but sure, I'll endorse some British bias. What're we thinking? I'm pretty sure that the infantry in the Guards Armoured Brigade should die rather than surrender, since that's what The Guard does.
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: PzGren, regarding pricing and 'flavour'

Postby KattiValk » Mon 1 May 2017 22:10

Eugen has demonstrated their willingness to seriously skew symmetry between divisions (e.g.: Phase A high caliber AT/off map). The question is how far they're willing to go with the disparities.

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