Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

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FrangibleCover
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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby FrangibleCover » Fri 5 May 2017 00:36

Fade2Gray wrote:What on earth is so unattractive about mirror matches?

You'd know if you saw what I see in a mirror :D

teslars wrote:And I don't recall a training exercise where tanks blow up with their crew inside, bombers level the crap out of everything and soldiers dying left and right.

Happens all the time. The marshal type blokes wander through the simulated battlefield saying "You're dead, you're dead, you're dead" as everyone fires blanks and screams at each other. Then they're 'dead' or their tank is 'dead'. It's reported up to command as 'that unit is dead' and you, playing as the commander, see them 'die'.

Heck, if you're playing an internecine battle at the battalion level it's entirely possible that what you're actually doing in your imaginary command bunker is pushing little paper chits around a map and rolling dice. Which is pretty much what the game is, and if you zoom out you can see the other maps on the table. The whole thing is actually just Kreigspiel with a graphics update.
Last edited by FrangibleCover on Fri 5 May 2017 00:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby Coletrain » Fri 5 May 2017 00:49

I'm personally in favor of getting rid of mirror matchups in quick match/ranked, but the absolute worst scenario is for Eugen to make it optional. All that does is create separate matchmaking queues which will destroy any chance of success for it.

I think CoH 2 did matchmaking perfectly.

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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby Operation Ivy » Fri 5 May 2017 00:53

Coletrain wrote:I think CoH 2 did matchmaking perfectly.


This.

Usually i shit on CoH a lot even though or especially because i spent nearly 1000 hours playing it. What it showed however was that even though axis was always more populated than allies, you never had to wait for too long in the que. Especially that every "division" had their own rank was very nice. It encouraged to play all divisions and made it more versatile.

Playing mirror matches is also much more frustrating because RNG plays a bigger/more obvious role.

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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 5 May 2017 05:28

Operation Ivy wrote:Playing mirror matches is also much more frustrating because RNG plays a bigger/more obvious role.

How?
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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby Tigga » Fri 5 May 2017 11:40

I don't buy the trianing argument. It just feels like a cop-out. Especially if half the games are training...

I think one of the most fun elements of RTS games is using your strengths against the enemy's weakness, while trying to hide your weakness from their strength. Mirror matches remove this.

Things also go down to luck more. Two SPW 222s meet in the woods. They have the same stats, same vet. It's early game, and the winner will be able to roam the flank securing a large amount of land. Who wins? Well... it's whoever rolls dice better. Same gun, same range, same accuracy, same pen, same armour. The winner is just down to luck. If the units are different you can position them in places to maximise your chances of winning, or avoid fights where you are likely to lose. When the units are the same and there's no advantage to positioning its just a roll of the dice.

I really don't see the point in mirror matches. I can see they may decrease waiting times of people in the pool, but there's going to be fewer people in the pool because a large amount of people are just not interested in mirror matches.

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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby Crotou » Fri 5 May 2017 11:44

If you want to train against your comrades, just go in custom matches and make your dream come true. In the current state, I refrain from using Quick match because of this mirror monstruosity.
Last edited by Crotou on Fri 5 May 2017 12:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby FrangibleCover » Fri 5 May 2017 12:04

Tigga wrote:I don't buy the trianing argument. It just feels like a cop-out. Especially if half the games are training...

The training argument just counters the realism argument. It's a cop out but it's one that people can be happy with. Ultimately whether mirror matches should be allowed comes down to gameplay and queue times. At the moment, queue times are fine so mirror matches can be removed from ranked (still available in custom). As the game ages and queue times go up then that can be changed back.
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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby Operation Ivy » Fri 5 May 2017 12:45

Fade2Gray wrote:How?



Tigga wrote:Things also go down to luck more. Two SPW 222s meet in the woods. They have the same stats, same vet. It's early game, and the winner will be able to roam the flank securing a large amount of land. Who wins? Well... it's whoever rolls dice better. Same gun, same range, same accuracy, same pen, same armour. The winner is just down to luck. If the units are different you can position them in places to maximise your chances of winning, or avoid fights where you are likely to lose. When the units are the same and there's no advantage to positioning its just a roll of the dice.

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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby Crotou » Fri 5 May 2017 12:57

FrangibleCover wrote:The training argument just counters the realism argument. It's a cop out but it's one that people can be happy with. Ultimately whether mirror matches should be allowed comes down to gameplay and queue times. At the moment, queue times are fine so mirror matches can be removed from ranked (still available in custom). As the game ages and queue times go up then that can be changed back.


If you find the queue time is too high, just switch to the other faction, as one did in the first Wargame.
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Re: Ranked Allies vs. Allies / Axis vs. Axis?

Postby Razzmann » Sat 6 May 2017 14:18

Tigga wrote:Who wins? Well... it's whoever rolls dice better.

Which is a big part of nearly all engagements in SD.
If the enemy playes the same deck and opens with the same units, why not place the 222 a bit behind the initial engagement zone, waiting for the enemy's. Also due to asymmetrical maps you will not have the ideal 1vs1 engagements of units, one side will nearly always have a position where they can attack/defend better/worse than the opponent.
And in mirror matches, especially when playing the same deck, I'd say skill is a bigger factor than in other matches, whereas if it is purely Axis vs Allies ome side might have a single deck that effectively counters nearly every other deck the other side has to offer.

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