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Leon026
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More questions...

Postby Leon026 » Thu 11 May 2017 08:52

Purely looking from the german point of view, haven't gone through all the allied units yet.


Why does the M4A1 have more front armor than the Pz.IV H?
Why doesn't the Pz.IV J have wire mesh schurzen?
Why do schurzen offer zero additional protection against bazookas/piats?
Why does the 12.SS go directly from the Panther D to the Panther G? Why no Panther As that were delivered in higher numbers compared to the late war variant of the G?
Why does the M4A3(76) get 1200m range when the 76mm gun is comparable to the Pz. IV's Kwk40 ?
The Jagdpanzer IV uses the same gun as the StuG. Why does it get 200m more range?
Why do the StuGIIIG and StuGIV only have 1 MG in the unit card, when it also had a Co-Ax MG as well as an MG on the hull? The late variant of the IIIG used a remote controlled MG on the hull.
The single AA 20mm has 3 HE, why does the quad version have four times the HE AND four times the rate of fire? Shouldnt the HE be similar but benefit from the higher rate of fire from having 4? This totally invalidates the existence of the single 20mm AA platform.
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Re: More questions...

Postby orcbuster » Thu 11 May 2017 12:02

M4A1 with the slope had around 92mm of protection (2 inches at 60 degrees is around 3.6 inches so 92mm), the P IV H had 80mm
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Re: More questions...

Postby FrangibleCover » Thu 11 May 2017 12:22

Leon026 wrote:Why do schurzen offer zero additional protection against bazookas/piats?

I don't think that it's possible to have different protection levels against HEAT and AP in game, if you uparmour against one you uparmour against the other.
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: More questions...

Postby Tagaziel » Thu 11 May 2017 13:48

Leon026 wrote:Why does the M4A1 have more front armor than the Pz.IV H?


Sloping, as answered above.

Why doesn't the Pz.IV J have wire mesh schurzen?


Looking at David Doyle's reference catalogue of German combat vehicles, Thoma Schurzen entered service (factory-mounted) in August 1944, just as Overlord ended (which is basically the endpoint of Steel Division's timeframe).

Why do schurzen offer zero additional protection against bazookas/piats?


This is an interesting post on the matter, which points out that the Schurzen weren't designed for protection against shaped charge weapons, but anti-tank rifles and high explosive rounds. In fact, the added distance could benefit the early HEAT warheads by optimizing the stand-off distance.

Why does the 12.SS go directly from the Panther D to the Panther G? Why no Panther As that were delivered in higher numbers compared to the late war variant of the G?


Lack reference materials for that. Might be game balancing.

Why does the M4A3(76) get 1200m range when the 76mm gun is comparable to the Pz. IV's Kwk40 ?
The Jagdpanzer IV uses the same gun as the StuG. Why does it get 200m more range?


Game balancing aside, this might be a way of reflecting differences in optics. I'll have to dig into it.

Why do the StuGIIIG and StuGIV only have 1 MG in the unit card, when it also had a Co-Ax MG as well as an MG on the hull? The late variant of the IIIG used a remote controlled MG on the hull.


Looking at the reference catalog, both assault guns only have a single machinegun listed - not to mention, I don't see where the Saukopf could actually mount a coaxial machinegun.

The single AA 20mm has 3 HE, why does the quad version have four times the HE AND four times the rate of fire? Shouldnt the HE be similar but benefit from the higher rate of fire from having 4? This totally invalidates the existence of the single 20mm AA platform.


This simply reflects the fact that you have FOUR guns slapped together, quadrupling both - including ammunition consumption. It is superior - but the difference from what I remember and can see on the wiki, is that Flak 38 comes into play in Phase A, while the other only in phase C.

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Re: More questions...

Postby eMeM » Thu 11 May 2017 15:45

Tagaziel wrote:
Why do the StuGIIIG and StuGIV only have 1 MG in the unit card, when it also had a Co-Ax MG as well as an MG on the hull? The late variant of the IIIG used a remote controlled MG on the hull.


Looking at the reference catalog, both assault guns only have a single machinegun listed - not to mention, I don't see where the Saukopf could actually mount a coaxial machinegun.


There definitely was a StuG III G with coax, but from what I remember it was introduced in June or even September '44, so it might be OOTF, can't check it now. Not sure about StuG IV. Remote controlled MG was on the roof, instead of the standard one, so there would be no difference in game.
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Re: More questions...

Postby Darkmil » Thu 11 May 2017 16:26

Leon026 wrote:Why does the 12.SS go directly from the Panther D to the Panther G? Why no Panther As that were delivered in higher numbers compared to the late war variant of the G?

The Bef.Panther is an Ausf. A Panther, so this is not the case. Not accounting the fact that statwise it shouldn't make any difference (new transmission and new cuppola)
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Re: More questions...

Postby Tagaziel » Thu 11 May 2017 17:18

eMeM wrote:
There definitely was a StuG III G with coax, but from what I remember it was introduced in June or even September '44, so it might be OOTF, can't check it now. Not sure about StuG IV. Remote controlled MG was on the roof, instead of the standard one, so there would be no difference in game.


Digged a little more and yeah, my mistake. Doyle mentions it in the text of the catalogue, as part of the modifications carried out through the war. The modifications were introduced in June 1944, so it might be a case of StuGs being simply legacy models that weren't updated yet.

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Re: More questions...

Postby Mister Maf » Thu 11 May 2017 20:45

Tagaziel wrote:
Leon026 wrote:The single AA 20mm has 3 HE, why does the quad version have four times the HE AND four times the rate of fire? Shouldnt the HE be similar but benefit from the higher rate of fire from having 4? This totally invalidates the existence of the single 20mm AA platform.


This simply reflects the fact that you have FOUR guns slapped together, quadrupling both - including ammunition consumption. It is superior - but the difference from what I remember and can see on the wiki, is that Flak 38 comes into play in Phase A, while the other only in phase C.

I think there's a mechanical misunderstanding here. Rate of fire in this game is merely an ammo consumption stat. For continuously-firing weapons, the HE value alone represents its relative effective power. You'll notice the same thing with infantry squads packing one or two MG42s.
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Re: More questions...

Postby Tagaziel » Thu 11 May 2017 21:08

Mister Maf wrote:I think there's a mechanical misunderstanding here. Rate of fire in this game is merely an ammo consumption stat. For continuously-firing weapons, the HE value alone represents its relative effective power. You'll notice the same thing with infantry squads packing one or two MG42s.


Well, that certainly clears a thing or two up, thanks for that. It's not very intuitive, is it?

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Re: More questions...

Postby Mister Maf » Fri 12 May 2017 06:23

I think it's better, actually. We're all used to Wargame's system where you had to fudge (or dig through game files) to get the real DPS of a weapon, especially because displayed rate of fire and actual rate of fire were often very different. That's hella uninutitive. Steel Division's armory gives you an easy clear-cut comparative idea of how strong two given weapons are relative to each other, at least in general. The only thing you have to factor in yourself is accuracy.

Of course, single-shot weapons like tank cannons just show the HE per individual shot, like normal.

On a related note, I discovered how to easily compare two units of different divisions. When you click on a unit, its stat card stays pinned automatically. There's a dropdown menu at the very top of the deckbuilder that lets you swap between your decks, and pinned stat cards stay between decks. So, for example, you could go to 3rd Armored, click the Jumbo to see its stats, then go to 21. Panzer and mouse over the Tiger II without clicking to see them side-by-side. Not as good as the Wargame armory, but a hell of a lot better than committing stats to memory as you back out to the previous screen to pick a different deck.
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