Steel Division sales...

Grosnours
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2091
Joined: Mon 17 Sep 2012 23:00
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Grosnours » Mon 19 Jun 2017 14:46

nande wrote:
Grosnours wrote:I'm top 10 in ranked !
well it's an objective measure of progress in a system that identifies experience and skill. Besides elitism outrage, what's wrong with referencing it when you're at an impasse with someone who can't see the game in the same way.

I see a few issues with this :
- it's not an objective measure of progress simply because not everyone plays ranked. This is not at all the top ranked player's fault mind, but being top of the ranked leaderboard in a Wargame has much less clear cut meaning than let's say having the best ELO in chess.

- it's a weak argument, which would nicely fit in Schopenhauer's Art of Being Right, wargame edition. It's also a very lazy one, which kills the discussion rather than foster some meaningful back and forth. It's not tragic if you can't convince tour opponent in an argument (how often does that happen anyway ?) but discussing in a forum is a very public thing. Resorting to self-worth argument rather than ideas will be seen as quite petty.

- knowledge of the game and execution of the correct strategies to win is indubitably correlated, but that's about it. You can be an excellent player without automatically having to be able to predict accurately all the changes a stat alteration can bring and you can know the game inside out without being a top player. Knowledge and skills are two different things, and while it's very likely you'll need both to be on top, it's not absolutely mandatory either. This translates into the fact that "I'm top 10, you're not" doesn't put an end to the discussion. Because you're a good player, it's likely you have a good knowledge of the game, but because your opponent is an average player doesn't translate automatically into his knowledge of the game being sub-par.

nande wrote:while I've had a ton of issues with the game throughout the two betas, it's the shocking implementation of matchmaking that was the reason for my refund of SD. Had decent matchmaking been the main mode for finding games at release, the playercount wouldn't have dropped from almost 5k to the 500 I'm seeing right now on steamcharts. Sadly, it looks like the ship's sailed.

Current matchmaking is indeed an half-assed hasty solution which can only be counter-productive sooner or later. Looks like it was sooner.
Last edited by Grosnours on Mon 19 Jun 2017 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
Razzmann
General
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri 7 Mar 2014 15:29
Location: The land of flowing beer and Sauerkraut.
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Razzmann » Mon 19 Jun 2017 14:47

Hidden Gunman wrote:they aren't a special or protected species, although some act like it.

Honestly, this whole "they are special snowflakes", "they think they something better than others" is so far from the truth. As soon as someone mentions that they are a good ranked player to show that they had to deal with certain situations, people come out of their holes and start sying stuff like "oh, you think you are better than us? fuck off!". It is honestly ridiculous.
And saying "ranked does not count for shit" or "being highly ranked means nothing" is just as BS (I think you wrote something very similar to that on the paradox forum). While it can certainly be the case, that some ranked players in Wargame only got a high rank due to helorushing, when there it is word vs word of a ranked player vs someone who does not touch ranked, chances are the high ranked player is right.

People bitch about ranked player being elitist, when in fact they are very rarely and people just interpret that BS as soon as they mention the rank even once.

User avatar
Crotou
Colonel
Posts: 2604
Joined: Thu 12 Apr 2012 20:36
Location: DM's keep
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Crotou » Mon 19 Jun 2017 15:18

nande wrote:Had decent matchmaking been the main mode for finding games at release, the playercount wouldn't have dropped from almost 5k to the 500 I'm seeing right now on steamcharts.


Can't agree more.
Image

User avatar
KattiValk
General
Posts: 6319
Joined: Tue 19 Nov 2013 03:39
Location: Houston, Texas (CST)
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby KattiValk » Mon 19 Jun 2017 16:08

Crotou wrote:
nande wrote:Had decent matchmaking been the main mode for finding games at release, the playercount wouldn't have dropped from almost 5k to the 500 I'm seeing right now on steamcharts.


Can't agree more.
Very much this, Server Browser is a lobby stacking extraordinaire experience with greens helplessly caught in the middle. I'm going to have an 80%+ W/L at this rate with all the accidental seal clubbing I do.

I feel like this game would have done much better if Matchmaking was actually good enough to get triple digit figures searching for games for most of the day. Instead, it's a miracle if there are more than 20 people searching at any one time.

User avatar
Hidden Gunman
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2057
Joined: Fri 6 Apr 2012 07:47
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Hidden Gunman » Mon 19 Jun 2017 22:33

Razzmann wrote:
Hidden Gunman wrote:they aren't a special or protected species, although some act like it.

Honestly, this whole "they are special snowflakes", "they think they something better than others" is so far from the truth. As soon as someone mentions that they are a good ranked player to show that they had to deal with certain situations, people come out of their holes and start sying stuff like "oh, you think you are better than us? fuck off!". It is honestly ridiculous.
And saying "ranked does not count for shit" or "being highly ranked means nothing" is just as BS (I think you wrote something very similar to that on the paradox forum). While it can certainly be the case, that some ranked players in Wargame only got a high rank due to helorushing, when there it is word vs word of a ranked player vs someone who does not touch ranked, chances are the high ranked player is right.

People bitch about ranked player being elitist, when in fact they are very rarely and people just interpret that BS as soon as they mention the rank even once.


Actually, I'm bitching about the "I'm a top 10/20/30 ranked player and that gives me more of a right to an opinion than you"; and "L2P noob"; and currently on the paradox forums "Play me...". Personally, I didn't care one way or the other until a cabal of ranked players had been insulting and putting down any differing opinions on Paradox' forums...so, screw them, time for the average joe to come back.

As I said, they are koala bears...very special, but their gaming experience is not the experience of the bulk of the players, and it's that bulk of the players that fill the game lobbies and ultimately buy the game.
Last edited by Hidden Gunman on Mon 19 Jun 2017 22:41, edited 2 times in total.
A Firefly killed Wittman...

It's a 17lbr, not a 76.2mm.

User avatar
Hidden Gunman
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2057
Joined: Fri 6 Apr 2012 07:47
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Hidden Gunman » Mon 19 Jun 2017 22:37

nande wrote:
Hidden Gunman wrote:I don't recall seeing any high ranked 1v1 player providing any assistance or effort to bring new players into the game. You never see them providing help or advice in chat, and I can't recall seeing much in the forums
Razzmann created his tutorial video series and fadeway wrote the definitive red dragon guide. Top players create content for people to watch and stay interested, be it recordings of tourneys or even just ranked games.


That's a fair comment, but as I said, I don't recall any help or advice in chat, nor much in the forums though...it's a "Here's me playing, play like me to win!" thing.
A Firefly killed Wittman...

It's a 17lbr, not a 76.2mm.

User avatar
Razzmann
General
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri 7 Mar 2014 15:29
Location: The land of flowing beer and Sauerkraut.
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Razzmann » Mon 19 Jun 2017 22:40

Hidden Gunman wrote:As I said, they are koala bears...very special, but their gaming experience is not the experience of the bulk of the players, and it's that bulk of the players that fill the game lobbies and ultimately buy the game.

And the bulk of players that generally can't use units to their full potential and are therefore not as much affected by many balance changes.

User avatar
Hidden Gunman
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2057
Joined: Fri 6 Apr 2012 07:47
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby Hidden Gunman » Mon 19 Jun 2017 22:43

Razzmann wrote:
Hidden Gunman wrote:As I said, they are koala bears...very special, but their gaming experience is not the experience of the bulk of the players, and it's that bulk of the players that fill the game lobbies and ultimately buy the game.

And the bulk of players that generally can't use units to their full potential and are therefore not as much affected by many balance changes.


Ahhh...classic, "I'm good, you're not...therefore you don't count."

Don't you think that kind of supports what I'm saying? Scratch the surface and the elitism shows through, heh.....

I'd suggest we both let this slide at this point...it's likely to turn nasty.
A Firefly killed Wittman...

It's a 17lbr, not a 76.2mm.

User avatar
I WUB PUGS
Lieutenant
Posts: 1225
Joined: Tue 30 Apr 2013 18:40
Location: Monterey California
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby I WUB PUGS » Mon 19 Jun 2017 22:51

nande wrote:while I've had a ton of issues with the game throughout the two betas, it's the shocking implementation of matchmaking that was the reason for my refund of SD. Had decent matchmaking been the main mode for finding games at release, the playercount wouldn't have dropped from almost 5k to the 500 I'm seeing right now on steamcharts. Sadly, it looks like the ship's sailed.


Mmhmm

KattiValk wrote:I feel like this game would have done much better if Matchmaking was actually good enough to get triple digit figures searching for games for most of the day. Instead, it's a miracle if there are more than 20 people searching at any one time.


If I can count them on more than one hand at 9 pm Pacific, I'm utterly shocked. As such, I have a grand total of 3 ranked games and I think only one of them made it through to the end. What fun.
Image

captaincarnage
Major
Posts: 1915
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014 23:50
Contact:

Re: Steel Division sales...

Postby captaincarnage » Mon 19 Jun 2017 23:16

To be fair to HG he has a point, there are a number of players who were not active on the Eugen forums or at least who don't have the same name who are acting like total b**l e**s on most of the balance threads, I'm not going to name names but there are 2 very unpleasant and extremely arrogant individuals who post regularly on the Paradox forums, if they got banned for some reason i don't think anyone other than their egos would miss them.

That's not to say we don't have our own share of special snowflakes on these forums but the ones on the Paradox forums really do take the piss and give anyone who has ever played a ranked game a bad name.

Rant over.
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests