Windhund division

Object199
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Windhund division

Postby Object199 » Sun 9 Jul 2017 20:09

Can someone explain me why the Windhund division suffers from the same infantry penalty like the Panzer-Lehr and the Hitlerjugend?

It is not like Windhund is any good in the tanks departement, better than infantry or airborne divisions, but it is clearly the weakest tank division in the tank departement. Could it get at least the same treatment as the Armoured Guards and get some decent numbers on their infantry cards?

Only 2 Pzrgen and MG42 per card isnt justified IMO. What do you think?
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HaryPL
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Re: Windhund division

Postby HaryPL » Sun 9 Jul 2017 20:51

It's kind a flavor of them?

They have very low availability in A, though it's counter balanced with being all-mechanized and double vet, that with CV bonus gets to 3vet. They also have very good early armor/anti-armor options as well as whole section of (recon) APC with Autocannon Cult(tm) seal of approval.

They just aren't meant for any kind of attrition or meat-grind matches due to low numbers, on the other hand when one plays on Windhund terms -small sized engagements where german player is using hit&run tactics - he can outright murder most of enemy opposition while keeping own units alive further into battle.

Personally would some some more redundancy in division, to let it be more sensible choice in bigger matches, but I guess it was just designed for particular set of lobby options and small maps.

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Re: Windhund division

Postby Object199 » Sun 9 Jul 2017 20:59

HaryPL wrote:It's kind a flavor of them?

They have very low availability in A, though it's counter balanced with being all-mechanized and double vet, that with CV bonus gets to 3vet. They also have very good early armor/anti-armor options as well as whole section of (recon) APC with Autocannon Cult(tm) seal of approval.

They just aren't meant for any kind of attrition or meat-grind matches due to low numbers, on the other hand when one plays on Windhund terms -small sized engagements where german player is using hit&run tactics - he can outright murder most of enemy opposition while keeping own units alive further into battle.

Personally would some some more redundancy in division, to let it be more sensible choice in bigger matches, but I guess it was just designed for particular set of lobby options and small maps.


Everthing you have said is right, but you cant even 1vs1 with them [blah blah, no tank deck is really 1vs1 competitve, I know] artillery/mortar proliferation, bomber spam and off map arty kinda kills it.

Windhund would work in low point games, but these arent a thing yet, unlike Wargame. Same thing goes for hit&run, tank combat is a lil bit more unpredictable thank Wargame and higher vet levels only help you so far.

I could understand it if you could rely on superior tanks like Lehr or Hitlerjugend, but only getting a few Panthers in C? The Canucks´ tank section is competitive with Windhund, and that is a friggin infantry deck.

Windhund is definitively on the weaker side of the available divisions.
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Re: Windhund division

Postby captaincarnage » Sun 9 Jul 2017 22:18

I'll swap your 'shitty' vetted Panthers for my noob guards armoured firefly's...
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

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Re: Windhund division

Postby HaryPL » Mon 10 Jul 2017 13:52

I'm not saying it is not weak.
Just trying to 'read' design, while adding that myself I managed, although under strict cirrcumstances, to squeez some effect and even a bit of fun from it.

And IMO its not that windhund armor tab is weak, its just 12.SS and Lehr blows any other armor tab away, back, and away again.

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Re: Windhund division

Postby Terracos » Tue 11 Jul 2017 12:07

I tried Windhund a little bit lately and I started to enjoy it but I had to change my playstyle a lot.

It figured out it works best when you spread thin. As this sounds stupid first, you actually can make 3 strike teams at the start, each containing a CV, a PZgren, a MG and an Autocannon. They can defend well at the place the enemy team masses units, while you can push at the other locations. Certain maps are not great but maps with multiple hedgerows in around 300-400m distance work well.

The deck is really strong then. Just avoid towns you have to fight for.

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Re: Windhund division

Postby HaryPL » Tue 11 Jul 2017 12:32

3 groups is too much, you are too thin and withou any punch. 2nd Div rolls in with M4 and you are already dead.
Get task force of PzIIIM, CV Autocannon, Recce autocannon, Spahrecce and PzGren with theirs halftracks and 2 empty halftrucks from other pzgren and spahrecce infantry that you deployed elsewhere to hold line. Cant remember the points but if there are any left add cv autocannon to help pzgren+spah inf defend rest of line.

With such group you can easily push up the frontline in A as long as enemy isnt blobbed in one place or forcing you to fight on open ground where his FSV will eradicate your pzgrens.
Push empty halftracks with recce and cv autocannon forward, counter any enemy vehicles with pzIII m and if range is too close to 200m let pzgrens duke it out with enemy inf/at. Single AT guns that open up under 700m will melt under fire of 2 autocannons and 3x 3vet halftracks any day of the week. Get mortar truck asap.

Obviously that works when you play hedge map vs non-vehicle spam deck such as French, 3rd or Guards.

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Re: Windhund division

Postby D-M » Tue 11 Jul 2017 14:38

you cant even 1vs1 with them


Maybe it's just not meant for 1v1 ? maybe a shitton of division aren't meant for 1v1. Maybe the game was designed for 2v2/3v3.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Windhund division

Postby KattiValk » Tue 11 Jul 2017 15:04

Windhund is probably one of the strongest divisions in the game last I checked. They may not have many cards of infantry in Phase A, but their fire support up close is unmatched. Plus, the infantry you do get is elite, which means they have much more bang for their buck.

You're obviously not going to cover an entire 1v1 map satisfactorily with infantry like something like Canada can, but it's still my favorite Axis division for 2v2. IIRC, the autocannon recon vehicle wasn't even nerfed.

Their greatest weakness is somewhat lackluster Phase B armor options. While the Panzer III Ms in A are absolutely amazing, the Panzer IVs leave a lot to be desired, as they do require some thought to counter Shermans.

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Re: Windhund division

Postby CUALEB_Operator » Tue 11 Jul 2017 16:48

As a panzer division, with its phase A marder, two-star Pz III's and grid-erasing panzerwerfer, 116th lives up to the title. Maneuver and offense is the name of the game, the infantry and their half-tracks are only there for the support, and being two-star elites they already out-performed their counterparts. Besides the red devils (with naval guns and napalm bomber) no other allied division has a strong inf eraser/stunner at phase A. If you constantly run out of PzGrens you're not playing in your favor but your opponent's.

But for their armor weakness in phase C I concur, not because upvet panther A is bad in anyway but 116th suffers from both an overall weak phase b and a low-income phase C. 116th is very likely to lose units to jumbo/firefly during phase b, that at the beginning of phase C it has a hard time raising points for a panther and its full supports, giving the allied a window to out-flank or CAS stun the panther.

However this is intended to balanced their phase A superiority, plus panthers are still a pain in the ass for any allied division.

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