Lessons from SD44: Improving strategic balance

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Drang
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Lessons from SD44: Improving strategic balance

Postby Drang » Sat 23 Feb 2019 15:59

A list of suggestions to improve the overall balance of SD2, by learning from the mistakes of SD44. I am more optimistic as to the balance of SD2, being an ostfront game.

1. Call in delays for air power. While reaction has significantly reduced in capability in SD44, it is sad to see that it's still a thing that offensive pushes can be blunted or just plain stopped by the mindless spamming of aircraft.
1 a) On a related note, reduced availability for AT airframes such as the HS129 or the Ju-87G. These were relatively rare, incredibly vulnerable aircraft. They should not be available in Phase A.
1 b) All divisions should have dedicated fighters in Phase A.

2. Greater fire delays for heavier artillery. Pretty self-explanatory. Makes artillery less useful in a reactive role, encourages it's use offensively - or at least as part of a planned defensive strategy.

3. No more 12th SS Panzer meme firefly/Cromwell. Don't hand out the premiere units of one side to the other, and certainly don't make them Phase A monsters. Phasing off the game was an excellent idea to stop the immediate deployment of the heaviest units in a vanguard force: but it was immediately broken by handing out superunits to certain divisions and not others.

4. Some consistency in the difference between off and on map artillery. Pick a cut-off for weapons capability and stick to it: don't give one division on-map 203mm guns, and another division on-map 150mm guns, and other divisions have to call in anything heavier than a 105mm. I'd personally go towards making anything heavier than a 105 an off-map asset.

5. No Phase-B King Tiger/Josef Stalin. Pretty obvious as to why.

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Destraex
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Re: Lessons from SD44: Improving strategic balance

Postby Destraex » Sun 24 Feb 2019 06:15

Drang one of your suggestions is already implemented in the opposing way. That is that you can now choose all but the heaviest units in phase A if you wish. I think you just get less of that card if you take it in phase A.

Also with regard to artillery. I think mortars should be more realistic ranges. Some only fire 1km?
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Re: Lessons from SD44: Improving strategic balance

Postby kvadrat spoon rest » Sun 24 Feb 2019 16:12

Drang wrote:A list of suggestions to improve the overall balance of SD2, by learning from the mistakes of SD44. I am more optimistic as to the balance of SD2, being an ostfront game.

1. Call in delays for air power. While reaction has significantly reduced in capability in SD44, it is sad to see that it's still a thing that offensive pushes can be blunted or just plain stopped by the mindless spamming of aircraft.
1 a) On a related note, reduced availability for AT airframes such as the HS129 or the Ju-87G. These were relatively rare, incredibly vulnerable aircraft. They should not be available in Phase A.
1 b) All divisions should have dedicated fighters in Phase A.


Can't argue with that too much. I don't mind HS-129/Ju-87G (or IL-2) available in Phase A, as historically they were often on 'free hunt' type missions,which would mean they're available in the notional Phase A. Fighters had their own free hunt missions too...

2. Greater fire delays for heavier artillery. Pretty self-explanatory. Makes artillery less useful in a reactive role, encourages it's use offensively - or at least as part of a planned defensive strategy.


Concur. Might help make lighter artillery more useful/desireable as well.

3. No more 12th SS Panzer meme firefly/Cromwell. Don't hand out the premiere units of one side to the other, and certainly don't make them Phase A monsters. Phasing off the game was an excellent idea to stop the immediate deployment of the heaviest units in a vanguard force: but it was immediately broken by handing out superunits to certain divisions and not others.


I'm not totally against this, as both the Germans and Soviets used Beute/captured vehicles in forward detachments. That said, I also won't miss it too much those Phase A monsters are gone.

4. Some consistency in the difference between off and on map artillery. Pick a cut-off for weapons capability and stick to it: don't give one division on-map 203mm guns, and another division on-map 150mm guns, and other divisions have to call in anything heavier than a 105mm. I'd personally go towards making anything heavier than a 105 an off-map asset.


Support this, unless the SD2 maps are noticeably different and/or there's sufficient historical precedent allowing for them being on-map in potentially direct-fire roles. That said, I also believe off-map artillery should be effectively unlimited in the number of bombardments it can call - but to balance that out make the 'reload' times longer (5+ minutes between bombardments?) and the calls-for-fire longer (60+ seconds until rounds start falling on the target area) so they act as pre-planned bombardments from division, corps or army-level assets. Historically, I think only the US Army was ever able to get flexible, responsive fire for heavy artillery working during the war, and it required a very capable communications network. Soviet artillery had powerful pre-planned bombardments, but they weren't great at responsive fires from their heavy guns.

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Re: Lessons from SD44: Improving strategic balance

Postby steppewolf » Thu 28 Feb 2019 10:48

Drang wrote:A list of suggestions to improve the overall balance of SD2, by learning from the mistakes of SD44. I am more optimistic as to the balance of SD2, being an ostfront game.

1. Call in delays for air power. While reaction has significantly reduced in capability in SD44, it is sad to see that it's still a thing that offensive pushes can be blunted or just plain stopped by the mindless spamming of aircraft.
1 a) On a related note, reduced availability for AT airframes such as the HS129 or the Ju-87G. These were relatively rare, incredibly vulnerable aircraft. They should not be available in Phase A.
1 b) All divisions should have dedicated fighters in Phase A.


I agree with dedicated fighters in Phase A, however there were instances when some ground units didn't have air cover so I understand Eugen's decision for some divisions.

About ground attack planes, I don't think it's affected by spamming planes and sometimes this was a real life event, for example Romanian CAS pilots saw up to 15-16 sorties per pilot to support ground troops in retreating from Ukraine and during 1944 the activity was very intense, thy were in close contact with ground troops. In 1944 the communication with air units was much better for all sides and more planes were in the air. I think as it's balanced SD44 now, the game is not break by planes' spam, at least compared with Wargame

Drang wrote:2. Greater fire delays for heavier artillery. Pretty self-explanatory. Makes artillery less useful in a reactive role, encourages it's use offensively - or at least as part of a planned defensive strategy.


But Arty during WW2 was often use in reactive role. But I get that you refer more to over 150 mm artillery , to the big guns. I am unsure here, given the new scale of the maps, it seems it will be much bigger than SD44. Anyway you have to close a vehicle to the front line to use it so I don't think is such fast reacting. The artillery spotter takes some time to make it in position to fire, I believe it is realistic as it is.

Drang wrote:3. No more 12th SS Panzer meme firefly/Cromwell. Don't hand out the premiere units of one side to the other, and certainly don't make them Phase A monsters. Phasing off the game was an excellent idea to stop the immediate deployment of the heaviest units in a vanguard force: but it was immediately broken by handing out superunits to certain divisions and not others.


Beute Panzers were used so it is historically realistic but I agree about Phase A, it makes the 12 SS Panzer very good in openings with Allied gear, doesn't look at SS at all so I agree with this, it's odd to see the SS rolling in the opening with allied tanks.

4. Some consistency in the difference between off and on map artillery. Pick a cut-off for weapons capability and stick to it: don't give one division on-map 203mm guns, and another division on-map 150mm guns, and other divisions have to call in anything heavier than a 105mm. I'd personally go towards making anything heavier than a 105 an off-map asset.


The advantage of off map artillery is that it comes and fire as an battery and corps level heavy artillery units were anyway quite far from the front line to have them in the deck as separate guns. I'd cap the on map arty at 105/122 mm and use what is above as off map. It would solve the issue of an arty spam early. Still, some divisions had heavy arty in their composition so it would make sense to bring them on map in a forward position, compared with the off maps one. With bigger distances that looks like to be in SD2, this kind of make sense.

5. No Phase-B King Tiger/Josef Stalin. Pretty obvious as to why.


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