Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

v44n
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Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby v44n » Mon 25 Mar 2019 06:42

Hello, I am really interested in Steel Division 2.

As an old RTS gamer, I feel like most new RTS games are missing a good aspect of the old ones Auto-generated map, they we awesome, it helped a lot on replayability by giving you a new experience every time you play making you a fan of the game of ages! like Age of Empires or Empire Earth.

On the tactical level, an Auto-generated map will be a good option for people who hate the map pools, I saw the news that Steel Division 2 will have 25 maps, that's good amazing but, for my experience, in the end, people will play 2-3 good maps in MP.

Map pools are still a good thing, but I would love to see auto-generated tactical maps.

Now, on the Strategic level, for dynamic camapaigns, I know the game want a historical approch on the Operation Bagration, that's amazing!, but I would be pretty sad If the gameplay is awesome and is only limited to the Operation Bagration, both on the tactical maps in the strategic map and on the army of both sides.

I would love to see apart from the Operation Bagration dynamic campaign, I would love to see a not historical option, both on the strategic map (auto generated) and with equal forces on both sides.

I think this both ideas would be amazing to see all the potencial of the game

This is my recommendation, Thanks you for reading! (maybe there is some grammar issues, I am not a native english speaker)
Last edited by v44n on Mon 25 Mar 2019 21:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby praslovan » Mon 25 Mar 2019 20:11

v44n wrote:Hello, I am really interested in you Steel Division 2.

As an old RTS gamer, I feel like most new RTS games are missing a good aspect of the old ones Auto-generated map, they we awesome, it helped a lot on replayability by giving you a new experience every time you play making you a fan of the game of ages! like Age of Empires or Empire Earth.

On the tactical level, an Auto-generated map will be a good option for people who hate the map pools, I saw the news that Steel Division 2 will have 25 maps, that's good amazing but, for my experience, in the end, people will play 2-3 good maps in MP.

Map pools are still a good thing, but I would love to see auto-generated tactical maps.

Now, on the Strategic level, for dynamic camapaigns, I know the game want a historical approch on the Operation Bagration, that's amazing!, but I would be pretty sad If the gameplay is awesome and is only limited to the Operation Bagration, both on the tactical maps in the strategic map and on the army of both sides.

I would love to see apart from the Operation Bagration dynamic campaign, I would love to see a not historical option, both on the strategic map (auto generated) and with equal forces on both sides.

I think this both ideas would be amazing to see all the potencial of the game

This is my recommendation, Thanks you for reading! (maybe there is some grammar issues, I am not a native english speaker)

They literally take aerial battlefield photos of that era and make a map out of them... so I think your idea won't happen.

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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby kvadrat spoon rest » Mon 25 Mar 2019 20:48

Nevermind that it's extremely difficult to generate near-flawless LOS calculations on a random map. At least, I've never come across a 3D wargame that does it well. The Combat Mission series did for a while, 20 years ago, but as their graphics improved and their tilesizes shrank with new technology, they had to move away from randomly generated maps too.

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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby Destraex » Tue 26 Mar 2019 10:46

The replayability of all Eugen games was a problem because the maps were never moddable or ever numerous enough.
Look at games like COH 1 and 2 and Men of War to compare. The community does not die off as fast. I think primarily because the game moddable and therefore brings new players because the old stick around longer. Modders who make new maps made the old close combat 5 last many many years for a lot of people. This cemented the legend that would not otherwise be I think.
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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby molnibalage » Tue 26 Mar 2019 14:21

v44n wrote:Hello, I am really interested in Steel Division 2.

As an old RTS gamer, I feel like most new RTS games are missing a good aspect of the old ones Auto-generated map, they we awesome, it helped a lot on replayability by giving you a new experience every time you play making you a fan of the game of ages! like Age of Empires or Empire Earth.

On the tactical level, an Auto-generated map will be a good option for people who hate the map pools, I saw the news that Steel Division 2 will have 25 maps, that's good amazing but, for my experience, in the end, people will play 2-3 good maps in MP.

Map pools are still a good thing, but I would love to see auto-generated tactical maps.

Now, on the Strategic level, for dynamic camapaigns, I know the game want a historical approch on the Operation Bagration, that's amazing!, but I would be pretty sad If the gameplay is awesome and is only limited to the Operation Bagration, both on the tactical maps in the strategic map and on the army of both sides.

I would love to see apart from the Operation Bagration dynamic campaign, I would love to see a not historical option, both on the strategic map (auto generated) and with equal forces on both sides.

I think this both ideas would be amazing to see all the potencial of the game

This is my recommendation, Thanks you for reading! (maybe there is some grammar issues, I am not a native english speaker)

Even just a fraction of your recommendation is not feasible.

1. Autogen never will result balanced map.
2. Not buggy maps.
3. Why do you need random? In RL the only static feature of warfare is the terrain. You wish to make this RANDOM and unpredictable...?

Just think about RTW series. Generated battlefield map from large map what is possible with few randomized small objects and that is all.

What is the point is a 100% unreal strat map...?

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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby v44n » Thu 28 Mar 2019 01:55

molnibalage wrote:
v44n wrote:Hello, I am really interested in Steel Division 2.

As an old RTS gamer, I feel like most new RTS games are missing a good aspect of the old ones Auto-generated map, they we awesome, it helped a lot on replayability by giving you a new experience every time you play making you a fan of the game of ages! like Age of Empires or Empire Earth.

On the tactical level, an Auto-generated map will be a good option for people who hate the map pools, I saw the news that Steel Division 2 will have 25 maps, that's good amazing but, for my experience, in the end, people will play 2-3 good maps in MP.

Map pools are still a good thing, but I would love to see auto-generated tactical maps.

Now, on the Strategic level, for dynamic camapaigns, I know the game want a historical approch on the Operation Bagration, that's amazing!, but I would be pretty sad If the gameplay is awesome and is only limited to the Operation Bagration, both on the tactical maps in the strategic map and on the army of both sides.

I would love to see apart from the Operation Bagration dynamic campaign, I would love to see a not historical option, both on the strategic map (auto generated) and with equal forces on both sides.

I think this both ideas would be amazing to see all the potencial of the game

This is my recommendation, Thanks you for reading! (maybe there is some grammar issues, I am not a native english speaker)

Even just a fraction of your recommendation is not feasible.

1. Autogen never will result balanced map.
2. Not buggy maps.
3. Why do you need random? In RL the only static feature of warfare is the terrain. You wish to make this RANDOM and unpredictable...?

Just think about RTW series. Generated battlefield map from large map what is possible with few randomized small objects and that is all.

What is the point is a 100% unreal strat map...?


I think an balance in a autogenerated map can't be much of a problem, we have old games that did this pretty well. Buggy random maps could help a lot to fix many bugs in the game that other wise would be hidden, making the game more stable.

We don't know how much fun we can have in a autogenerated maps in a good game like steel division, maybe would be awesome.

Random and unpredictable are good things I would say, still a autogenerated map is not full random, every seed could be unique but the layouts are overall similar so you know what could expect from every map a good example of this is AOE, Rise of nations or EE for example. Of course they are completely different games compared to steel division.

In steel division you could have an option to create a autogenerated map in categories, for example "close quarters city", "plains" even ridicule things that are not necessary real, like weird river layouts, etc. All this could help to exploit many of the game potential that are not necessary by design.

All of this ideas are of course contrary to what the Eugen System filosofy of the game are intended to. But I feel most recent game in the last decade are missing key points like this that made old games great. One of the best examples of this for me is HoI4, I love that game, the gameplay is awesome, all the strategic maneuvering of troops are amazing.

But you know what I think the game is missing? you could call It ridiculousness in a historical approach game as Hoi4, but I would have love to see a Sanbox option for the game, in a alternate earth, (or even the same earth) but with all the countries balanced that start all from scratch, same overall resources for each nation (maybe one country has more fuel/steel that other making invasion or trading meaningful)

I hoped I clarify my ideas, again I am sure this is not the filosofy that ES want to approach and maybe my ideas have technical limitations, but I wanted to share them. This also could help to attract other kind of people who are not interested in all historical approach in a good RTS game like SD, maybe they want enjoy the amazing gameplay features in a more ridiculous matter

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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby Destraex » Thu 28 Mar 2019 11:11

molnibalage wrote:
v44n wrote:Hello, I am really interested in Steel Division 2.

As an old RTS gamer, I feel like most new RTS games are missing a good aspect of the old ones Auto-generated map, they we awesome, it helped a lot on replayability by giving you a new experience every time you play making you a fan of the game of ages! like Age of Empires or Empire Earth.

On the tactical level, an Auto-generated map will be a good option for people who hate the map pools, I saw the news that Steel Division 2 will have 25 maps, that's good amazing but, for my experience, in the end, people will play 2-3 good maps in MP.

Map pools are still a good thing, but I would love to see auto-generated tactical maps.

Now, on the Strategic level, for dynamic camapaigns, I know the game want a historical approch on the Operation Bagration, that's amazing!, but I would be pretty sad If the gameplay is awesome and is only limited to the Operation Bagration, both on the tactical maps in the strategic map and on the army of both sides.

I would love to see apart from the Operation Bagration dynamic campaign, I would love to see a not historical option, both on the strategic map (auto generated) and with equal forces on both sides.

I think this both ideas would be amazing to see all the potencial of the game

This is my recommendation, Thanks you for reading! (maybe there is some grammar issues, I am not a native english speaker)

Even just a fraction of your recommendation is not feasible.

1. Autogen never will result balanced map.
2. Not buggy maps.
3. Why do you need random? In RL the only static feature of warfare is the terrain. You wish to make this RANDOM and unpredictable...?

Just think about RTW series. Generated battlefield map from large map what is possible with few randomized small objects and that is all.

What is the point is a 100% unreal strat map...?


Why do we need random? I would be happy with modded.
However random is ideal because typically if one side is winning they rarely fight on the same battlefield in the short term. They push into terrain that neither the defender or the attacker have fought on. Granted if their is back and forth style engagements or static defences that have settled it's different.

BUT the main reason for random maps is so that people do not know the maps backwards especially when facing new players who do not have this advantage!
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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby molnibalage » Thu 28 Mar 2019 11:40

Destraex wrote:
molnibalage wrote:
v44n wrote:Hello, I am really interested in Steel Division 2.

As an old RTS gamer, I feel like most new RTS games are missing a good aspect of the old ones Auto-generated map, they we awesome, it helped a lot on replayability by giving you a new experience every time you play making you a fan of the game of ages! like Age of Empires or Empire Earth.

On the tactical level, an Auto-generated map will be a good option for people who hate the map pools, I saw the news that Steel Division 2 will have 25 maps, that's good amazing but, for my experience, in the end, people will play 2-3 good maps in MP.

Map pools are still a good thing, but I would love to see auto-generated tactical maps.

Now, on the Strategic level, for dynamic camapaigns, I know the game want a historical approch on the Operation Bagration, that's amazing!, but I would be pretty sad If the gameplay is awesome and is only limited to the Operation Bagration, both on the tactical maps in the strategic map and on the army of both sides.

I would love to see apart from the Operation Bagration dynamic campaign, I would love to see a not historical option, both on the strategic map (auto generated) and with equal forces on both sides.

I think this both ideas would be amazing to see all the potencial of the game

This is my recommendation, Thanks you for reading! (maybe there is some grammar issues, I am not a native english speaker)

Even just a fraction of your recommendation is not feasible.

1. Autogen never will result balanced map.
2. Not buggy maps.
3. Why do you need random? In RL the only static feature of warfare is the terrain. You wish to make this RANDOM and unpredictable...?

Just think about RTW series. Generated battlefield map from large map what is possible with few randomized small objects and that is all.

What is the point is a 100% unreal strat map...?


Why do we need random? I would be happy with modded.
However random is ideal because typically if one side is winning they rarely fight on the same battlefield in the short term. They push into terrain that neither the defender or the attacker have fought on. Granted if their is back and forth style engagements or static defences that have settled it's different.

BUT the main reason for random maps is so that people do not know the maps backwards especially when facing new players who do not have this advantage!

You said auto GENERATED. This can be random or similar to RTW with is derived from strat map. In MP lobbies the latter is simply cannot be interpreted because is not strat map. ---> Random = useless, not good.

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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby Destraex » Fri 29 Mar 2019 00:30

Well I like auto-generated and random.
Both should provide a fairer skirmish experience. I still noticed in SD44 that people set up honey pots where they ambushed people with the perfect map and deck for that map. At least SD44 had a random option, but still not enough maps. When people got sick of the maps they generally got sick of the game. Especially if the maps had little to no variation.
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Re: Auto-generated Tactical and Strategic Maps

Postby v44n » Fri 29 Mar 2019 04:27

Destraex wrote:Well I like auto-generated and random.
Both should provide a fairer skirmish experience. I still noticed in SD44 that people set up honey pots where they ambushed people with the perfect map and deck for that map. At least SD44 had a random option, but still not enough maps. When people got sick of the maps they generally got sick of the game. Especially if the maps had little to no variation.


I can't agree more with you :D

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