Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

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Destraex
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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby Destraex » Mon 1 Apr 2019 00:37

The option should be in the game for sure. But perhaps it should not be the default.
SD2 has added so many phase options for both income and units in the hope that games are winnable early I would guess.
You can still run the cap counter down to zero well before C I imagine. If you use your units smartly.
I don't remember other RTS games having time limits, but instead relying on peoples skill to finish things early in most cases.
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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby matrin » Mon 1 Apr 2019 06:26

Drang wrote:Pras seems to be overstating the case - no time limit games are valid game modes and simply encourage a different type of playstyle. You also see the most maneuvere warfare in them, and the least volume of meme anal-retentive micro that you used to see in some of the earlier titles.
That said: I have a house, a partner, a family, a fairly serious battletech modelling addiction and a gym membership to use, along with an employer with the unreasonable idea I should actually turn up to the office. I need time limits on most of my games, and I suspect the majority of us do.

It's a valuable feature and should not be discarded.


Valuable, sure, but it should not be the default around which the game is being balanced. You could always do no time limit games in SD and WG, but they were never the default and the games was never balanced around that.

On a side note, racking up the VP tick as the phases go along would be another good way of weighting the phases corresponding to the stakes of the battle. Though it makes far less sense for SD 2 since mainline combat units are flooding the field already in Phase A.

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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby AdRain » Mon 1 Apr 2019 14:31

I do not know which "masochist" will chose "no time limits". Sorry this is totally nonsense, most of the strategic games have a time limits, you do not remember any RTS? Steel Division 1 / TW series - for example? I know that you want to be more "tacticool" but no one wants to get bored for two hours - cause you think "okay... i'll stay defend till 2h then i will massevily rush them". 90% of the people, do not have time to your suprising rush after 2hrs. They will surely leave the game and find something new, so only PC-BOT will be suprsied of your sudden attack. Most of Mulitplayer RTS games, have some time limit. Most of the people like to play in this way of working.

I know that for militiary-technican-tacticool-uber-uberspecialist playing one game with no time limits for 2hrs is fun, but for most of the players it's not. They simply want to have a good fun. That's why most of the RTS MP games have time limits.

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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby rattusxrattus » Tue 2 Apr 2019 11:33

praslovan is not right
the skill to make a deck for your style of play is also a skill, in exhaustion games it is very important

Drang wrote: I need time limits on most of my games, and I suspect the majority of us do. It's a valuable feature and should not be discarded.

This limit you always have - the button "surrender".
Once again, if time is running out, your units are over, then capitulate. You do not need a timer to press this button. And it’s also great that I decide when to give up.

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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby Arthur_Foxache » Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:07

I think time limits should be optional. Those who wish to play an unlimited game of 2 hours can do so, and those who wish to only invest 30 minutes should be able to play a full game, too. It seems as if the problem lies in the 10 minute fixed time amounts for phase A and B. In time limited games, phases should be as a percentage of total time: ie., phase A @25%, phase B @25%, and phase C @50%, or whatever percentages are found to work best in making all phases relevant. I'm not sure what percentages will work best, but it appears to be the best way forward in time limited games.

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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby praslovan » Tue 2 Apr 2019 21:15

rattusxrattus wrote:praslovan is not right
the skill to make a deck for your style of play is also a skill, in exhaustion games it is very important

This sounds like one of those reasonings for which no child left behind was created. It is a skill to turn on the PC if nothing else... ask average 80 years old person.


rattusxrattus wrote:This limit you always have - the button "surrender".
Maybe germans should get a tactical nuke. Oh that would be unfair and unbalanced? Well yeah, but you can also surrender.
Once again, if time is running out, your units are over, then capitulate. You do not need a timer to press this button. And it’s also great that I decide when to give up.

Lol... Justin Trudeau? Is that you?

If you can't push and hold 60% of the map for the most part of the first 40 minutes you do not deserve to win or be considered seriously with whatever kind of argument advocating this game setting for which only real solution is "surrender".
Oh... IS2 is OP... well you can surrender. Great reasoning.

I bet you don't enjoy having a partner that just lays there during intercourse and does nothing. And I bet you would not enjoy them saying "what, is that it?" when you give up because you get bored. Or perhaps you are that partner... then it makes why you wrote what you did.

The reason why this is broken and should not be what it is is because even if you can grind me down and flip a point in your favour you still won't win because you don't have aynthing that you can push with and while I am disabled in offensive I can still defend well enough to spin the game into eternity.
I bet your idea sounds great for you... untill you encounter couple of games where you did OK and your opponent did mistakes and yet you will have to watch how you will loose in 3 hours because simply there was no tactics in that match, just numbers game.

No time limit should be left for skirmish... where I guess it works for people.

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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby Adolith » Wed 3 Apr 2019 10:24

The default game mode should be conquest with a 40-45min time limit, just like in SD1. This way the phase system actually matters and game times are predictable which also affects things like deckbuilding, balancing etc.

However, just like before you should be able to create "no time limit" games, if you enjoy this mode. But the game should not be balanced for it, just like it should not be balanced for 4v4 on 1v1 maps.

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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby Crotou » Wed 3 Apr 2019 14:01

praslovan wrote:I am pissed off at the fact that you though that no time limit games are a good idea.


They really did that ? :lol:
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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby Drang » Fri 5 Apr 2019 01:30

rattusxrattus wrote:
Drang wrote: I need time limits on most of my games, and I suspect the majority of us do. It's a valuable feature and should not be discarded.

This limit you always have - the button "surrender".
Once again, if time is running out, your units are over, then capitulate. You do not need a timer to press this button. And it’s also great that I decide when to give up.


Or I could just set a timer on the game like an adult. You are familiar with the concept of mutually agreed rules?

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Re: Unlimited time and air resources makes game broken beyond playable

Postby KillaJules » Fri 5 Apr 2019 05:47

The issue though is that the timer should be the default setting for MP. Unlimited time should only be an option against the AI.

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