Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

MasterOfCybertron
Sergeant First-Class
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu 16 Feb 2012 04:34
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby MasterOfCybertron » Sun 18 Nov 2012 23:56

So Tigga are you saying that it's best not to get arty at the beginning and only get it later when you need it.
I can see the advantage of that, since you can spend the extra 200-400 pts on frontline troops but arty is the way to force the opponent to move or die. Arty has the weight to do some damage and keep enemy ATGM's at bay.

I would like to discuss this in more detail.

Tigga
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2446
Joined: Tue 5 Jul 2011 02:46
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby Tigga » Mon 19 Nov 2012 02:46

It depends. There's an argument to be had for spending some cash for a single arty piece to be used as a close range support piece, but spend too much and you really cut down on your flexability. If you do want to buy tube arty at the start, it has to move with the main bulk of the army and be used surgically (similar role to a mortar - ie. firing at 4-6km range). For me the issue here is that it often won't help you much in the first few moments as forces clash and everything is dynamic (depends on the map) being much more useful after things have settled a bit. This is especially so if you're up against a broad ground rush where arty is pretty much wasted points.

After the start, it can be a good idea on quite a few maps to bring in 1-2 tubes as your first purchase. It really depends how things have turned out. It tends to be the more moving is going on across the front the less useful arty is. Similarly if your opponent opens with 3 (or more!) CVs arty doesn't tend to be a good way of capitalising on their lack of troops on the ground... though obviously it depends a bit on the map.

As far as starting force/reserve points go I tend to prefer my starting force to be quite fighting fit. It's job is to grab ground and make it through the starting minutes with more kills than the enemy, rather than being a strong mid-game force. By keeping things like arty out and by keeping supplies slim it can best do this. Once a bit of recon has determined what sort of units I need for the upcoming battle I can adapt my force to the battle at hand. Sometimes this will be with agressive units, sometimes with AA, sometimes arty, sometimes another command vehicle, sometimes high AP ATGMs, sometimes a top-tier tank... all sorts, and it often depends very strongly on what your opponent has put in front of you.

Anyway, have editted first post to reflect this slightly less harsh approach to starting arty! It was really directed mostly at people who start with 4 pieces and sit them at their HQ sector ineffectively shelling stuff from miles off.

MasterOfCybertron
Sergeant First-Class
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu 16 Feb 2012 04:34
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby MasterOfCybertron » Mon 19 Nov 2012 05:10

Interesting.
Another question concerning logistics.
I used to buy an extra fob at the start of every match or more to have a healthy supply for the long run.
Now I only start with one and dont buy extra since I need an extra slot for supply vehicles and CVs.
The question, is it better to use the supply vehicles u already have to recycle the supplies on the field so that u save points for fighting units, or is better to use FOBs as last resort supply and better to buy extra supply vehicles to bring more supply?

Thanks a lot I'm understanding more and more how and why force tends to lose early game engagements. I take 3 AUF1s and 4 Malkas at the beginning and they have served me well but it is true that I do end up with a small relatively thin force of:
NATO:
1 m1a1
1 gazzelle recon
1 m3a1 recon bradley
1 Luch a1
3 m2a1 Bradley
1 squad of legion on vab
2 flankpanzer gepard a1
1 marder roland 2
2 HEMMTs
1 Marder to support inf

Pact:
1 mi 9
1 pt 76 or 90 double vet
1 recon jeep
2 t 80s in singles
1 tunguska
1 buk m1
3 t813 or kolos
3 bmp 2 obr 186
2 mot schutzen
1 shturm if i have points

bentguru
Warrant Officer
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon 20 Feb 2012 02:30
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby bentguru » Tue 20 Nov 2012 01:11

cyber your force there is paper thin and wont stand up to a determined rush. It also doesn't have much defensive power either since you have no quality infantry. If I encountered it I would just drive right over it and make a run at your artillery (because remember, once you fire that artillery your opponent knows exactly how many arty units you have and can estimate how many points that represents).

A balanced 1v1 defensive start involves lots of cheap units, lots of infantry, a fair to middling amount of ATGMs, one or two medium tanks, one (AND ONLY VONE) heavy tank. Max 1 unit tube arty, and deleting your starting fob is a good idea on certain maps.

User avatar
enohka
Second-Lieutenant
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun 21 Oct 2012 04:25
Location: HEAP
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby enohka » Tue 20 Nov 2012 13:25

I think the arty decision depends strongly on the map. For instance Storm eye, the tourneys first map. I always buy one AMX Auf1 at start and put it close to the mid, it can decide complete fights in the center isle. You can attack ATGM which is in the wood near you enemies bridge, you can attack infantry which is hidden in the town.

IMHO - if you intend to rush or play more offensive it is often worth to take one arty with you, especially for countering some "rush-counters" tigga mentioned like infantry in the woods or ATGM. But - it was already mentioned either - you have to take it with your force. You can sell your VOB for the starting Arty, but i think its only worth on smaller maps.

To the VOB question. I think if you sell your VOB you have to win enough ground to make sure it is not getting a long camping game with even or less income for you. For instance on the map Summernights you have to go over bridges and hold this ground if you want to sell your VOB.

MasterOfCybertron
Sergeant First-Class
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu 16 Feb 2012 04:34
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby MasterOfCybertron » Tue 20 Nov 2012 13:43

bentguru wrote:cyber your force there is paper thin and wont stand up to a determined rush. It also doesn't have much defensive power either since you have no quality infantry. If I encountered it I would just drive right over it and make a run at your artillery (because remember, once you fire that artillery your opponent knows exactly how many arty units you have and can estimate how many points that represents).

A balanced 1v1 defensive start involves lots of cheap units, lots of infantry, a fair to middling amount of ATGMs, one or two medium tanks, one (AND ONLY VONE) heavy tank. Max 1 unit tube arty, and deleting your starting fob is a good idea on certain maps.


Ok, so a more effective defensive force is more about a denser, larger and cheaper force riddled with a couple of expensive units? So no Bradley's? Bradley's I find extremely useful since if u have a fair number of them they can act as a good ATGM basis and a good way to transport infantry. I'll admit they are expensive but I think effective.
As for the medium tanks, the only ones I get are the Cheiftains mk 10 cause Pattons have no way of reaching or killing Pact due to the range and thick armor on Pact units.
Some suggestions on what cheap units I would bring along with me if I toss the tube arty. What about Helicopters to?

User avatar
enohka
Second-Lieutenant
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun 21 Oct 2012 04:25
Location: HEAP
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby enohka » Tue 20 Nov 2012 14:45

MasterOfCybertron wrote:Ok, so a more effective defensive force is more about a denser, larger and cheaper force riddled with a couple of expensive units? So no Bradley's? Bradley's I find extremely useful since if u have a fair number of them they can act as a good ATGM basis and a good way to transport infantry. I'll admit they are expensive but I think effective.
As for the medium tanks, the only ones I get are the Cheiftains mk 10 cause Pattons have no way of reaching or killing Pact due to the range and thick armor on Pact units.
Some suggestions on what cheap units I would bring along with me if I toss the tube arty. What about Helicopters to?


you need more than 1 inf! :) Marder VTS1 with vet 1-3 are good or AMX 30B Valorise. I think you need good micro if you are using Bradleys for troop transports!

MasterOfCybertron
Sergeant First-Class
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu 16 Feb 2012 04:34
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby MasterOfCybertron » Tue 20 Nov 2012 18:12

I primarily use Bradley's for their TOWs and happen to have an effective ability to transport riflemen. Marker VTS1? Never grew fond of that vehicle , how wud u use it?

User avatar
Ribar
Warrant Officer
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri 7 Sep 2012 09:27
Location: Belgrade,Serbia
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby Ribar » Tue 20 Nov 2012 20:30

Marder VTS1(speed is around 70km/h) is cheap,has medium ap and accuracy when vetted on exp. level 2,and can be deployed in large numbers and used against groups of cheap infantry transports as well as other low-medium armored units.
All in all that is a unit that can be used as cheap light unit killer.
I usually use them in 1v1 ranked matches and extra guns no matter how bad they are can be very useful and this one is faster than a tank and can outflank and intercept it or run away from infantry rushes.
Image :mrgreen:

User avatar
untilted
Master Sergeant
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat 1 Sep 2012 13:27
Contact:

Re: Tigga's non-rushers guide to 1v1 ranked

Postby untilted » Wed 21 Nov 2012 10:35

MasterOfCybertron wrote:I primarily use Bradley's for their TOWs and happen to have an effective ability to transport riflemen.


riflemen as in "any infantry squad" or as in "i'm calling them in with riflemen"?

if it's the latter: you are spending 205pts on three overpriced ATGM carriers and 3 terrible squads of infantry.
for the same price you can get: 2 I-TOW jeeps for 50pts, 1 ATGM team Milan F2 with 2chev for 45pts and you still have 110pts left for other vehicles and infantry (e.g. 4 squads fusilier/jäger and 1 squad legion FAMAS). a well placed and supplied squad of ATGM infantry can cause more havoc to entrenched vehicles than any bradley squad could dream of (the enemy needs arty/FFAR to retaliate against ATGM infantry beyond the range of 2275/2100m .. while bradleys can be shot at from 2801m)
Image

Return to “Tips & Tutorials”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests