Always sun and clouds on WAB?

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mastom
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Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby mastom » Tue 26 Feb 2013 15:04

Hi all,

I wondered if we'd include climate change as snow, rain, strong winds which could slow progression or promote units. For example, if there is a significant wind, air units would be difficult to progress and move. In addition, if there would be snow then the fuel would be used faster (cold) and ground units would have difficulty advancing in their turn as if there would be heavy rains or units would be more easily mired in forests. While a time with a huge sun would be ideal.

TY
Mastom

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orcbuster
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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby orcbuster » Tue 26 Feb 2013 15:08

probably not. no screenshot has showcased such features and it has never been mentioned by devs
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praslovan
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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby praslovan » Tue 26 Feb 2013 16:41

I don't like rainy weather in real life... why would I want to look at it in the game? :)

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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby Falcrack » Tue 26 Feb 2013 18:02

praslovan wrote:I don't like rainy weather in real life... why would I want to look at it in the game? :)


But i do like rainy weather in real life. Snow too. Perpetually sunny days are what I find depressing. Maybe that comes from living too long in a desert.

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DelroyMonjo
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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby DelroyMonjo » Tue 26 Feb 2013 18:41

Because fighting in the snow is haarrrd!

16 Jan, 1940: Captured documents reveal Hitler's plans for the invasion of Scandinavia and a postponement of the invasion of France and the Low Countries until the Spring, when the weather is more compatible for an invasion.

13 Nov, 1941: Germans start a new offensive against Moscow as the muddy ground freezes again.

4 Dec,1941: The temperature on the Moscow front falls to -31°F (-37°C).[3] German attacks are failing.

5 Dec, 1941: Germans call off the attack on Moscow, now 11 miles away; the USSR counter-attacks during a heavy blizzard.

16 Dec, 1941: The German offensive around Moscow is now at a complete halt.

30 Jan, 1942: Hitler speaks at the Berlin Sportpalast and threatens the Jews of the world with annihilation; he also blames the failure of the offensive in Soviet Union on the weather.

21 Jan, 1943: Last airfield at Stalingrad is taken by Red forces, ensuring that the Luftwaffe will be unable to supply German troops any further; Hitler still demands that Friedrich Paulus continue the fight.

31 Jan, 1943: Friedrich Paulus (Generalfeldmarschall in command of the German 6th Army) and his staff surrender to Soviet troops in Stalingrad.

Fighting in sunny weather is a bit different.

25 Jun, 1940: France officially surrenders to Germany.
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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby troublmaker » Tue 26 Feb 2013 18:46

There is a good practical reason not to include weather.

Basically these large scale tactical war games involving large scale maps and tones of units with tones of individually moving parts (the tracks on tanks, infantry all having different motions, wheels turning, cannons spinning, helicopters spinning, etc.) use up a lot of computer power.

Adding in weather doesn't really add anything to the game itself and if done poorly has the ability to make the game look terrible Adding great weather might make the game be very visually appealing... but might also make the game look terrible.

To contract Star Wars: The Old Republic (from Bioware) limited the number of people you could interact with at a time to under 40. The reason was, was because there was so much stuff going on in the background that adding so many people would crash even the most hardcore of rigs.

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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby DelroyMonjo » Tue 26 Feb 2013 19:27

I don't buy your explanation at all, troublmaker. Whether there is snow, mud or rain makes NO difference in the number of moving parts in the game. Why would it be so difficult to code for 50% slower movement of wheeled and foot movements only during snow? What would be so hard to imagine 50% increased probability of 'bog down in mud' for a rain scenario? Fog; 1km or less visual and recon range for ALL units. Is that so hard?
I personally think it has to do with the way maps are created and rendered in WEE, not the simple mechanics of unit movement.
And honestly, WEE struggles with just 8 players in a game sometimes which is something for which I've never seen a real answer as to WHY?
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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby Gronank » Tue 26 Feb 2013 19:32

Isn't the clouds in WEE enough? They render the game almost unplayable and the first thing I did in the game was to disable them (right after changing the vertical synchronisation).
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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby Dimonay » Tue 26 Feb 2013 19:33

I would only want weather like snow and such if it did not effect all vehicles the same. Nearly all Swedish vehicles for example where made for being able to fight in the snow and they should not have as hard as other vehicles to fight in the snow

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Re: Always sun and clouds on WAB?

Postby troublmaker » Tue 26 Feb 2013 19:52

DelroyMonjo wrote:I don't buy your explanation at all, troublmaker. Whether there is snow, mud or rain makes NO difference in the number of moving parts in the game. Why would it be so difficult to code for 50% slower movement of wheeled and foot movements only during snow? What would be so hard to imagine 50% increased probability of 'bog down in mud' for a rain scenario? Fog; 1km or less visual and recon range for ALL units. Is that so hard?
I personally think it has to do with the way maps are created and rendered in WEE, not the simple mechanics of unit movement.
And honestly, WEE struggles with just 8 players in a game sometimes which is something for which I've never seen a real answer as to WHY?


There's a simple way to prove this to you.

Go to Crytek and download the CryEngine (it's free). Now using the CryEngine make 500 sprites and make sure they move all at once. The movements have to be complicated enough to be machines. Also make sure the background is moving, maybe some fires as well. Make sure there is moving weather on top of all of this.

Okay go ahead and render and play back what you just created. If your computer can handle that, congratulations you are part of the 1% of people with rigs powerful enough to maintain it.

If you zoom in on the units in the game you will see they're doing a tonne of crap. Similar games like Total War deal with 1/10 of the units per player.

Weather is a particularly odd mechanic for most games because it happens to be programmed into everything. As an example on top of each rain drop having to be animated individually and weather patterns having a separate AI... things also have to get wet. This means you need realistic weather animations for each unit in the game.

It's a mechanic that doesn't have a good pay out.

If you want to prove me wrong download the CryEngine and create a scripted battle with the set terms. If it is successful in running on more than that 1% of machines then it would be a worthwhile mechanic. But I guarantee you that all you'll do is crash your computer during the rendering process.

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