Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

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DiabloTigerSix
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Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby DiabloTigerSix » Tue 26 Mar 2013 11:05

Personally, I'm a bit worried by the following statement by MadMat:
[EUG]MadMat wrote:What I said is that whatever the size of the squad ingame, be it 2 (ATGM/LAAD team) to 15 (some squads ... ;) ), they all count as 1 squad and 1 transport vehicle can only take 1 sqad inside.
So a 2-men ATGM team will take all the room in a Chinook.

Why not have realistic passenger amounts (squad size being vehicle-dependent) and charge points per sodier, depending on how many troops their carrier comes with?

For example:
Riflemen - $1
Chasseur Famas - $1,25
Delta Force - $3

A M113 would come with 11 riflemen worth $11
A Bradley would come with 6 riflemen worth $6
A VAB would come with 10 chasseurs worth $12.5
A Blackhawk would carry 14 Deltas worth $42
A Chinook(a lot more expensive than BH, obviously) would carry with 44 Deltas worth $132 :mrgreen:
...so on and so forth.

I guess it would be cool if limitations worked the same way - e.g. you'd be limited to 90 Deltas instead of 9 squads.

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[EUG]MadMat
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Tue 26 Mar 2013 11:18

Problem is not pricing, it is engine limitations & feedbacks.

What happen when a 6-men team want to board a 4-men Spartan? Can't/Can? May 4 men enter and 2 stay out? Then where does the squad's support/heavy weapon should go: inside our out? Does the new unit get a new name? New squad leader?

The "it should not be hard to implement" concept usually don't take into consideration the trillion rules which would come to the surface with any new game mechanic.

So, for gameplay's sake, we've simplified to one transport = one squad.
And it is how it will be in ALB as in EE.

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Scrooge
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby Scrooge » Tue 26 Mar 2013 11:21

I like your idea and im pretty sure they had the same idea at some point. But I think they went that way because its easier to balance, and better for the performance.
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby Aikmofobi » Tue 26 Mar 2013 12:14

I'm thinking cargo slots, one squad = one slot as currently implemented but different amounts of cargo slots for different vehicles.
It's still simplified but rewards taking a transport with bigger capacity if thats your play style.
For example, most APCs with one slot and Chinooks with four slots.
A transport helicopter might come with 20 riflemen, 2 grouped sections.

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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby Bryan » Tue 26 Mar 2013 12:22

Agreed^

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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby Elder Forest » Tue 26 Mar 2013 21:43

One to go on the list for the next game Wargame:Armagedon (where NATO, PACT and China with a mix of local nations fight for control of the Middle East Oil-fields ) - oops that might start a good rumour.

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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby artao » Wed 27 Mar 2013 20:26

One cargo = One squad is one of the gamiest aspects in W:EE, and I'm shocked that Eugen has chosen not to fix it for W:ALB. It really IS as simple to do as it sounds. The game knows how many men are in a squad. Squads obviously should not be broken up. Transports should have a capacity relevant to squad size. Equipment is included in squad size. Simple.
The silliest example is large transport helos such as Chinooks. Really, they should be able to carry the smaller vehicles even.
The simplest way to address this is prolly to give each unit a "size" and then each transport slots to carry 'x' amount of units per size. Thus a Chinook for example could carry, say, 5 'small' units, or 3 'small' units and one 'medium' unit, or one 'large' unit. ... Something like that. It's NOT hard to implement, and tho simplified is infinite worlds better than the current ridiculous method.

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[EUG]MadMat
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Wed 27 Mar 2013 23:09

artao wrote:One cargo = One squad is one of the gamiest aspects in W:EE, and I'm shocked that Eugen has chosen not to fix it for W:ALB.

We fix bugs, not game rules.

artao wrote:The game knows how many men are in a squad. Squads obviously should not be broken up. Transports should have a capacity relevant to squad size. Equipment is included in squad size. Simple.

Then when your 5-men SAS squad comes knocking at the back door of your 4-men Spartan to get a ride home, the "game knows how many men are in the squad" ... and in the transport. And tell the SAS to go for a walk because there is one too many and the "squads should obviously not be broken". Simple.
And then player start screaming that there is a bug ...

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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby TheFluff » Wed 27 Mar 2013 23:18

artao wrote: It's NOT hard to implement

One of the easiest ways to piss a software developer off is to tell him that something he says is hard or time-consuming to change "isn't hard" or "shouldn't take a long time". If you haven't worked on the code base yourself, you really aren't in any position to speak, and how easy it is to imagine a change has pretty much nothing to do with how hard it is to implement.

Also, your proposal has severe usability issues, as MadMat points out. It's a game, not a simulation.

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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby REDDQ » Wed 27 Mar 2013 23:23

VVV
Aikmofobi wrote:I'm thinking cargo slots, one squad = one slot as currently implemented but different amounts of cargo slots for different vehicles.
It's still simplified but rewards taking a transport with bigger capacity if thats your play style.
For example, most APCs with one slot and Chinooks with four slots.
A transport helicopter might come with 20 riflemen, 2 grouped sections.

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