Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Larkis
First Sergeant
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed 17 Aug 2011 18:22
Contact:

Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby Larkis » Sat 4 May 2013 16:18

Actually i think the Implement of the new Airplanes are a little bit wrong. it don't feel good in my opinion.

Mostly you can not use your Aircraft cause there is the longrange RAD-AA and the planes have a huge turn radius. Even when i play est germany and put a Starfighter flying over mein position for air cover, its often fly over enemy area and will be shot down. And when i place them far away from the front on my side, they are not fast enough to engage to secure my Units.

on the Other Side, SEAD dont work how it should work in my opinion, cause they only could kill one enemy RAD-AA but will be killed when the enemy has more of them on the field.

often when i think about starting an aircraft i be often afrait cause there could be still RAD-AA hiding somewhere and planes ar expensive and only on low value.

So often i dont play with planes cause they are expensive, its too dangerous to place them and the advantsges is not very high. For example a A10 kill in one attackround 4 Tanks and mostly got shot down. For the money i pay for the A10 (190) and can buy 9 cheep tanks (20) which do the same job bether. Actual in Wargame: ALB there is no feeling for the role the aircraft has in this time. There are no SEAD Planes hunting RAD-SAMs, there are no Fighters, fighting for Air supperiority. When i reading books like tom Clancys "Red Storm Rising" the role of the airforce is much harder and important than in W:ALB where is actuall more feeling like a gimmik.

So the best think in my opinion is a revision of the air concept.

This is my Idea:

There are two Types of Plane.

1. Low-Altitute-Planes like the A10 and other Bombers. They fly only with low Altitute, can killed by RAD- and Infraret-AA but must be spottet like normal Units. So like its actual ingame.

2. High-Altitude-Planes meaning Fighter and SEAD Planes. They fly high enough so Infrared-Missiles with there 2km Range cant reach them. Onle RAD-AA can hit them. But High-Altitude Planes must not be spottet. Everyone see them until the arrived on the map.

Allround-Planes like the Tornado got an Change Altitude Button like Helicopters so player decide should they fly high and hunt other planes or should they fly low to attack ground, with all its advantages or disadvantages.

Also the RAD-AA got la little bit rework. They cant no more target Helicopters, cause they fly to low over the ground and between Buildings/Trees/Hills so they dont got a clear radar-signature to fire on Helicopters.

Also SEAD Fighter got a lot stronger in one place but a little bit weaker on another spot. First you cant controll them directly. You call SEAD-Support and they arrive and automatically fly outside the range of enemy RAD-AA. When they arrive they need a lot of time for targeting the radiation signatures maybe 10-15 seconds. After then they shot a missile on every RAD-Signature they and and the missile kills instantly the RAD-AA and the dissapear. If there are more RAD's then Missiles (For example the Prowler has 4 Missiles) then the plane shot on the nearerst targets befor they fly away. That means when i place 4 Prowler and the enemy dont deactivate they Radar i could kill 12 Rad-SAM's. If they cant find enemy radiation signature they will still stay there until they go evac Bingo

How should this system work finally?

Actuall there is no need for fighter and SEAD's cause the RAD-AA does a very very good job. You still need 2-3 RAD-AA's to save your troops, they easily kills every Plane which comes in Range. They are cheap, you can build them often no Problem with planes, no need for planes.

But my System change this.

1. You need Both AA, RAD and Infraret to fight against planes and helicopters. RAD-AA is good to shot down Planey before they can drop there payload and Infrared is good against planes or when the enemy plane is near, they can drop they payload but maybe you can kill them on there turn back. So Ground_planes attacking a position defend by Infraret si dangeours but still usefull. So the Defender need both AA.

2. The attacker still have the problem with the RAD-AA. So he calls a SEAD before he call his bombers. The SEAD Plane come, everyone see them and if they are smart enough the shut down every radar. If there are not smart enough the RAD-AA got killed. So SEAD does what ith should do. It Suppress Enemy Air Defence. When the RAD-AA is suppressed the Ground-Attackplanes are usefull but cpuld be in Danger cause of infrared AA.

3. But the Defender must not wait until the SEAD-Plane is gone. He call in Fighters. Fighters are still very good to fight planes. They still can kill the SEAD Planes easily and then fighting the Ground-Planes too.

So we got realistic airplay. First the Attacker call in a SEAD to supress enemy air Defence. Then he calls Fighters to cover the SEAD Plane, clear the Sky and got air-superiority and then he calls the Ground-Attack Fighters.
And the Defender does the same. He call in own SEAD Planes to secure his own fighters, call the fighters to fight the enemy fighters.

We got three levels of battle. The Groundlevel with Groundforces fighting each other, the low altitute Level with Helicopters, Groundfighters, Flak and Infrared-SAM and the high altitute level with Fighters, SEAD's and RAD-Missiles.

I think this system could be much bether then the actuall "RAD-AA rules the World and planes are useless" system.

And pls this is not a rant, i really love the game but i think the role of air could be much bether. I want that every minute in the game somewhere is a plane flying.

User avatar
orcbuster
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 12362
Joined: Fri 7 Sep 2012 21:04
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby orcbuster » Sat 4 May 2013 16:20

there will not be a major rework of the system so close to release.
Image
Viker for ingen!

User avatar
Breadbox
Captain
Posts: 1667
Joined: Sun 20 May 2012 12:12
Location: Cannot into Space
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby Breadbox » Sat 4 May 2013 16:23

there will not be any sort of major reworks or new mechanics added.Stop deluding yourselves guys.

Larkis
First Sergeant
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed 17 Aug 2011 18:22
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby Larkis » Sat 4 May 2013 16:27

i dont think that that is so much a major rework. Wargame works with realistic range Values. Put the plan on an altitude of 2km is not so much a change in my opinion.

The "cant fire on choppers" on the RAD-Sam is only changing a flag.

And the SEAD (what in my opinion needs definitve a rework) must only got a larger scan radius for finding RAD-AA and a larger range for the missiles.

Ok maybe we can keep controll over the SEAD Plane. We made them much slower, so the have enough time to target the 10-12 sec on the enemy RAD-AA's. But actual its not a Supressing of enemy Air Defence, its a "maybe i can kill the RAD-AA before they shot my plane down"

Or other Idea. The plane can fast detect the RAD's, can fast fire on them but the rockets move slower so the enemy can deactivate the radar and move the Rad to another position and must wait until the rocket drops.

User avatar
orcbuster
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 12362
Joined: Fri 7 Sep 2012 21:04
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby orcbuster » Sat 4 May 2013 16:32

Any change regarding altitude is a major change in mechanics that will need major rebalancing, and that won't happen.

The system is here to stay. DEAL WITH IT!
Image
Viker for ingen!

Larkis
First Sergeant
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed 17 Aug 2011 18:22
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby Larkis » Sat 4 May 2013 16:35

orcbuster wrote:Any change regarding altitude is a major change in mechanics that will need major rebalancing, and that won't happen.

The system is here to stay. DEAL WITH IT!


Do you think the actual system air is implement ist fine?

User avatar
Keinutnai
Lieutenant
Posts: 1115
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2012 16:02
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby Keinutnai » Sat 4 May 2013 16:35

Frankly airplanes and helos are being less often used than helis in W:EE.

Helos arent used much because they get shot down easily by planes which cost same or less.
Helos should be easy to kill by planes but shooting down the plane that shot down your helo shoud give you more points than the price of helo you lost. Jets are more expensive than helos in RL.

The decks dont have enough planes per slot. One or two planes really is nothing. Its enough to test an aircraft, but not enough to wage a war.
Wargame 4 - Balkan at War - New Countries: Italy, Spain, Greece & Turkey versus Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Hungary & Romania!

Leon026
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun 26 Feb 2012 09:36
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby Leon026 » Sat 4 May 2013 16:38

The actual design is quite fine, honestly.

There is NO aerial superiority, and most of the airplanes are designed to be used in a CAS role. If you wish that a Su-27 Flanker is to be used to intercept a low-flying A-10, you're well within your right to do so. Just mind the SAM Alley trap.



Right now people are so panicked and obsessed with airplanes that they invest all their effort to protect their center with SAMs, long-range air defense and what not, that they forget to bring SAMs with their attacking units. This allows me to continuously use both the Gazelle HOT and the Seahawk indiscriminately in just about every match. Happens once or twice per game that I destroy a T-80 armored column, until they bring their SAMs closer to the front line.... close enough for ATGMs ;)
Image

NoneSuch
Sergeant Major of the Army
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri 17 Feb 2012 14:25
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby NoneSuch » Sat 4 May 2013 16:38

Most planes are more expensive than helicopters though, I often bait planes with cheap helicopters and shoot them down so I can then use my more expensive choppers with less risk. Bring the 40 point recon chopper if you want some real good bait, players can't resist it, and you can easily snag yourself 100-200 point planes if you've got the right AA setup.

Leon026
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun 26 Feb 2012 09:36
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Rework of Air and Anti-Air System

Postby Leon026 » Sat 4 May 2013 16:40

NoneSuch wrote:Most planes are more expensive than helicopters though, I often bait planes with cheap helicopters and shoot them down so I can then use my more expensive choppers with less risk. Bring the 40 point recon chopper if you want some real good bait, players can't resist it, and you can easily snag yourself 100-200 point planes if you've got the right AA setup.



Definitely this. I got baited twice before I learned my lesson that going helo-hunting with airplanes was a bad idea (unless I'm 100% sure there is no ADA in the area, and even then....). A MiG-31/F-14 may have 10,000m+ missile range, but its anti-helo range is still 2.5km.
Last edited by Leon026 on Sat 4 May 2013 16:41, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Return to “Wargame : AirLand Battle”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests