National Pride & The Nation Bonus

colonelgeek
Corporal
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon 5 Nov 2012 19:09
Contact:

National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby colonelgeek » Wed 8 May 2013 02:30

Somewhere down the line it seems we forgot that wargame's multiplayer was never about making National Decks, but about making the best deck to suit the situation. As such, I really question if it was such a good idea to create Nation Bonuses.

As far as I can see, all they've really done is:
(i) give people the "false" impression that they should play as individual nations,
(ii) hurt national pride, :twisted:
(iii) and led to a surge in complaints that the nations aren't balanced. (Just look around on the forums!!)

I'd be interested to see what happens if we got rid of it -- at least that way, everybody has access to all units, and if they want to gimp their play style by using units from a single nation, they're free to do so.

The whole reason i enjoyed playing a "National Deck" in EE was because I knew I was handicapping myself, and even then my deck consisted of a few units from other countries to fill up the inevitable deficiencies. Taking the bonus away, because we're using "foreign" units to fill up deficiencies is the whole reason people keep complaining that National Decks don't work. Just take a look at this thread: Pages and pages of discussion which essentially boil down to: give us MANPADS and the F4 Phantom II -- units that are already in the game; units that they could perfectly well use, but because the game doesn't recognize as part of a West German National Deck, they don't either, and suddenly it's a huge issue with emotions everywhere.

The fact of the matter is, even with ~800 units, there just aren't enough to fully flesh out all the minor nations; so why are all of us war-gamey men and women who always strive for realism, getting so up in arms about an issue that the developers themselves have said was done for gameplays sake to add flavor to each faction?

I say, give everybody a blanket 35 or 38 etc. activation points and let players do with it what they will. If they want to limit themselves to one nation, that's a choice they'll have to live with. And for heavens sake don't let the game decide for us what is or isn't a national deck. We all know our flags of the world. In fact I'd be much happier if more of us started looking at thing's like unit balance (cost v. performance v. availability, and the occasional load out tweak) and left the whole nations thing out of it. ;)

User avatar
Communazi
Sergeant Major
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat 3 Mar 2012 11:04
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby Communazi » Wed 8 May 2013 02:38

Leave the nation bonus out and 75% of the units will stop being used basically, which leads to very boring and predictable decks.

If anything, more bonuses! or bonii as i like to call them

User avatar
DelroyMonjo
Colonel
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sun 6 May 2012 19:20
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby DelroyMonjo » Wed 8 May 2013 02:46

I agree that the National decks should probably receive some bonus activation pts for their use and be somewhat penalized a bit for using other of their allied nation's weps in a deck. Maybe it doesn't seem correct to the 'purists' but it seems to be a fairly simple method of equalizing factions somewhat. It's a game, I can choose the units I need because they fit my playstyle, not because of some overblown sense of national pride. If a game requires strictly national decks, e.g. U.S. Marines vs Russian Marines, I'll play it that way for the sport of it, not because I'm some raging, blood thirsty, baby eating Murican gyrene.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

User avatar
JBravo
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu 17 May 2012 16:07
Location: Plymouth Rock
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby JBravo » Wed 8 May 2013 03:01

I like national decks, it makes the game so much more interesting. If you use a national deck, you get a couple extra activation points, whereas if you use a multinational deck you get the best of both (or all) worlds, so to speak.
Image

User avatar
Xeno426
Carbon 13
Posts: 11928
Joined: Tue 13 Mar 2012 21:27
Location: Acheron, Hadley's Hope
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 8 May 2013 03:27

I'm rather disappointed with the national bonuses. I thought each one would get some kind of special "ability", but instead they just get more activation points. Not very fulfilling, and very good at tipping the balance against the USSR and US decks.
Image
CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

Toppopia
Corporal
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013 07:14
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby Toppopia » Wed 8 May 2013 03:53

We should get maybe an extra small bonus for making a NATO/PACT deck but not using US/USSR, so maybe a few more activation points because making a deck with no superpowers makes it more fun, more challenging and lets you focus on certain aspects, like my NATO Para's Before 1975 no US units deck (because US is soo overplayed in most games and movies i just want to avoid them), i can get over 150 infantry and 60 15 pointer tanks and some decent planes(unfortunately no support AA). Or playing a poland only deck, sure i can only get T-34's or T-55's but that means you need to think smarter if you are a national deck, lets you work out a playstyle. So and i agree with the guy who said that lots of units will be ignored if we had no national decks, like the poor T-34 or the cheap 5 pointer ATGM infantry.

What would help is a host option to beable to limit what decks are used, so that national decks arn't faced with full NATO/PACT so that people can have a more 'fair' match.

User avatar
Communazi
Sergeant Major
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat 3 Mar 2012 11:04
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby Communazi » Wed 8 May 2013 04:02

Toppopia wrote:We should get maybe an extra small bonus for making a NATO/PACT deck but not using US/USSR


Pretty sure that's already the case, it's different for each nation though (presumably based on how lacking their units are)

Toppopia
Corporal
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013 07:14
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby Toppopia » Wed 8 May 2013 04:04

Communazi wrote:
Toppopia wrote:We should get maybe an extra small bonus for making a NATO/PACT deck but not using US/USSR


Pretty sure that's already the case, it's different for each nation though (presumably based on how lacking their units are)


I'm meaning if you choose the 'All Nations' bonus, and then have no US units in your deck, you should get a tiny bonus.

Rath
Private First-Class
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri 15 Feb 2013 18:52
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby Rath » Wed 8 May 2013 04:18

Xeno426 wrote:I'm rather disappointed with the national bonuses. I thought each one would get some kind of special "ability", but instead they just get more activation points. Not very fulfilling, and very good at tipping the balance against the USSR and US decks.



You get access to prototype units, very useful to say the least!

User avatar
Destraex
Sergeant Major
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri 10 Feb 2012 02:32
Contact:

Re: National Pride & The Nation Bonus

Postby Destraex » Wed 8 May 2013 04:31

wow did not knowabout prototypes being locked to national decks.
If I create say an all british deck of my own will it allow me to add prototypes until i add other nations units?
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests