Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

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Gunner
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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby Gunner » Thu 16 May 2013 13:56

The Rbs-56 is supposed to hit top armor... Which means it will kill all tanks in one shot, and that is without crit hitting.
In game they modelled the Rbs-56 with a high AP to represent a top hit. For game balance they nerfed it.
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stray cat
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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby stray cat » Thu 16 May 2013 14:06

One person (Person A) makes a complaint about an imbalance, be it large or small, and another person (Person B) comes back with a jab at A's skill at or perception of the game, often completely disregarding A's potentially strong argument in favour of shaming them and/or validating their own playstyle (who's to say that it is any more correct?)

The beta is for making complaints, not batting them all away. If Eugen listened to all of the counter-complaints over the complaints then no change would occur at all. There's always somebody who seems to have a problem with the status quo opinion and that's ok, but if person B would present stronger counter-arguments (like quoting actual numbers like person A often will) than unverifiable claims that person A is playing stupidly then it might be easier to take B seriously.

The community seems to be descending into personal battles which serve to enhance people's own experience of the game alone and I'm just saying I think we should be wary of this. Please if you are a person B, or are accused rightly of being one, then step your arguments up a gear and use real evidence, not flaky preachy ones. And if you are a person A, try to make sure that you are not just arguing for argument's sake and trying to enhance only your own experience regardless of how it might affect others' experiences.
Sorry if this comes across as a very holier than thou statement, I am berating my past self too so don't worry. I probably fall into the A category sometimes anyway.


L2Argue

What you want to do is to forbid counter-claims when someone cries OP/NERF. Because they counter-claim might actually (heaven forbid!) be reasonable and true.


So your topic title "Counter-complainers are slowing progress." translates to: "Anyone disagreeing with me should be be allowed to speak".

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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby naizarak » Thu 16 May 2013 14:17

stray cat wrote:L2Argue

What you want to do is to forbid counter-claims when someone cries OP/NERF. Because they counter-claim might actually (heaven forbid!) be reasonable and true.


So your topic title "Counter-complainers are slowing progress." translates to: "Anyone disagreeing with me should be be allowed to speak".


All your posts are the same "you suck noob" or "learn 2 play" garbage. Take a break.

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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby OmikronAnubis » Thu 16 May 2013 14:36

stray cat wrote:
Post #1


L2Argue

What you want to do is to forbid counter-claims when someone cries OP/NERF. Because they counter-claim might actually (heaven forbid!) be reasonable and true.


So your topic title "Counter-complainers are slowing progress." translates to: "Anyone disagreeing with me should be be allowed to speak".


Have you even read the post mate? He said people should work with proveable facts or numbers which can be proven. If someone talks you shall use your brain and just argue yourself. "Learn to play", "learn to argue" "learn to use your brain" is not that helpfull you know? People call it constructive criticism.
The reason behind is that "learn to play" and such stuff will not help guys who really dont know how to handle a unit if they fail with them. There are no replays yet.
Last edited by OpusTheFowl on Thu 16 May 2013 17:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby FinKone » Thu 16 May 2013 14:58

I agree with OP completely. I've been rather active on here lately out of boredom, but I rarely try to get involved in these low level pissing contests hosted on here. This is perhaps one of my least favorite forums in regards to people just googling information and trying to look smart...

I've seen some legit posts in regards to things that need changed, and it simply gets bombarded with stupid, pointless, troll posts. So to some degree I can agree that the forum is counter-productive at times.

The other half of the problem is people that have their own bias or poor knowledge of how the game is played.

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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby FirmusPiett » Thu 16 May 2013 16:53

stray cat wrote:they counter-claim might actually (heaven forbid!) be reasonable and true.

No no that's exactly what I would like the case to be, but alas it is not because (as you so perfectly demonstrate) there are few who are really willing to come up with good, (like you say: 'reasonable') arguments involving numbers, reference to facts, and acceptable logic (and not one that resorts to personal insults regarding skill).

All I have ever seen you do is bat away complaint posts as pure nonsense and put it down to that person's skill being bad or non-existent, when hey maybe there really is a problem! Maybe it's not a question of skill relative to your own. Maybe skill isn't even a relevant counter.

Didn't I say in my OP that I have no problem with people disagreeing? It's more the way in which they disagree that is irking me recently.
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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby sabalias » Thu 16 May 2013 17:01

naizarak wrote:
stray cat wrote:L2Argue

What you want to do is to forbid counter-claims when someone cries OP/NERF. Because they counter-claim might actually (heaven forbid!) be reasonable and true.


So your topic title "Counter-complainers are slowing progress." translates to: "Anyone disagreeing with me should be be allowed to speak".


All your posts are the same "you suck noob" or "learn 2 play" garbage. Take a break.


L2Ignore Stray Cat? ;)

baali
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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby baali » Thu 16 May 2013 17:21

Well then lets hope stray cat learns from this and the more people read this the better.

Change is good. It can always be changed back if its not.

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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby naizarak » Thu 16 May 2013 17:26

sabalias wrote:L2Ignore Stray Cat? ;)


Not that easy to do when he spams the same crap in almost every thread I've come across


L2 not be a smartass

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Re: Counter-complainers are slowing progress.

Postby trotskygrad » Thu 16 May 2013 17:33

FinKone wrote:I agree with OP completely. I've been rather active on here lately out of boredom, but I rarely try to get involved in these low level pissing contests hosted on here. This is perhaps one of my least favorite forums in regards to people just googling information and trying to look smart...

I've seen some legit posts in regards to things that need changed, and it simply gets bombarded with stupid, pointless, troll posts. So to some degree I can agree that the forum is counter-productive at times.

The other half of the problem is people that have their own bias or poor knowledge of how the game is played.


this is why I stay out of Buratino and BMPT threads 8-)
NEXT TIME I SEE A DAMN FLAMEWAR INVOLVING DARTH-LAMPSHADE, FROSTPOOKY, LONERIFLE, FADE2GRAY, TROTSKYGRAD AND/OR ANYONE INVOLVED IN A DISCUSSION BETWEEN THEM I'M GOING TO HAND OUT BANS TO ANYONE USING ANYTHING LOOKING REMOTELY LIKE AN AD-HOMINEM

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