Un-nerf SEAD and Cluster

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Hidden Gunman
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Re: Un-nerf SEAD and Cluster

Postby Hidden Gunman » Sat 18 May 2013 01:03

Gopblin wrote:
Hidden Gunman wrote:Plane loss and tactics aren't in question here...what is in question is the actual lethality of those CBU's. They simply aren't working for what they are intended.

As I said, either the devs have degraded the lethality as a result of the air swarms we are seeing, or because they decided to make big tanks more survivable. This last point is questionable, as survivability should be up to the player to deal with, not the devs making a decision to make the tanks (virtually) immune to the weapon that should impose some fear and harm on them.


Planes two-shotting their intended target isn't exactly "(virtually) immune to the weapon that should impose some fear and harm on them". Lets see, according to your definition:

- Tanks are virtually immune to same-era tank cannons and ATGMs, since most of em don't oneshot tanks
- Planes are virtually immune to almost all AA
- Infantry is virtually immune to tank cannons
etc. etc.

I agree that PACT cluster bombers have been perhaps overnerfed in that last change, because they don't carry as many bombs as NATO. But they're still playable, and still can be used.

As for NATO, I'd say they actually benefited from that nerf as they still 2-shot enemy heavies like before, while their heavies are now much more survivable.

Best wishes,
Daniel


Two shotting isn't acceptable, for either side's aircraft.

This isn't about Mig29's...I'm only using them as the example because I'm familiar with using them. The core of the issue is that this nerf appears to be a reaction to a problem that was caused by other design/development flaws.

If someone has 12 strike aircraft, with X number of air superiority aircraft, they can continually shuttle bus attacks all game (assuming they know what they are doing), so the nerf will have minimal, if any, effect. But for players who use a balanced build, and only have a couple of ground attack aircraft, the nerf is severe, if not crippling (in relation to ground strikes).
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Gopblin
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Re: Un-nerf SEAD and Cluster

Postby Gopblin » Sat 18 May 2013 01:22

Hidden Gunman wrote:Two shotting isn't acceptable, for either side's aircraft.

This isn't about Mig29's...I'm only using them as the example because I'm familiar with using them. The core of the issue is that this nerf appears to be a reaction to a problem that was caused by other design/development flaws.

If someone has 12 strike aircraft, with X number of air superiority aircraft, they can continually shuttle bus attacks all game (assuming they know what they are doing), so the nerf will have minimal, if any, effect. But for players who use a balanced build, and only have a couple of ground attack aircraft, the nerf is severe, if not crippling (in relation to ground strikes).


Ah, now I get your point, sorry. I almost always run a clusterbomb-only air arm (sometimes with one SEAD or interceptor card), so I didn't notice much of a problem.

I suppose you have a good point for small games, where you don't have teammates providing missing parts of air power. In 10v10, it's "specialized build or go home" for pretty much any combat arm, not just aircraft.

Best wishes,
Daniel.
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Re: Un-nerf SEAD and Cluster

Postby lemonsquid » Sat 18 May 2013 08:24

how does PACT have advantage over NATO if SEADs or nerfed. Your realise you can turn your AA system off until the correct planes come by, or the enemy SEAD planes fly overhead. As NATO i encounter Pact SEADs which are very accurate if you ask me, so i just turn off my weapons till they fly overhead then i shoot them down its so simple
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Hidden Gunman
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Re: Un-nerf SEAD and Cluster

Postby Hidden Gunman » Sat 18 May 2013 09:02

Gopblin wrote:
Hidden Gunman wrote:Two shotting isn't acceptable, for either side's aircraft.

This isn't about Mig29's...I'm only using them as the example because I'm familiar with using them. The core of the issue is that this nerf appears to be a reaction to a problem that was caused by other design/development flaws.

If someone has 12 strike aircraft, with X number of air superiority aircraft, they can continually shuttle bus attacks all game (assuming they know what they are doing), so the nerf will have minimal, if any, effect. But for players who use a balanced build, and only have a couple of ground attack aircraft, the nerf is severe, if not crippling (in relation to ground strikes).


Ah, now I get your point, sorry. I almost always run a clusterbomb-only air arm (sometimes with one SEAD or interceptor card), so I didn't notice much of a problem.

I suppose you have a good point for small games, where you don't have teammates providing missing parts of air power. In 10v10, it's "specialized build or go home" for pretty much any combat arm, not just aircraft.

Best wishes,
Daniel.


Thanks Daniel, I wasn't being a specific *rse without basis. 10v10 is a different ball game, but for 3v3, 4v4, (especially 4v4), it is an issue.

But, then again, so is the addition of an 'air only deck' into the mix. It can be covered if you play with an established team who know what they are doing, but for random teams, particularly those with less experienced players, that massed air can be a real problem. I think most of us have seen more than a few new players drop in the first few minutes largely as a result of a massed air strike...rightly or wrongly, I'm not judging that in itself, but it's a bad intro for them, and a pain for the remaining players.

It's just a bit sad when the early team chat consists of "WTF!"
A Firefly killed Wittman...

It's a 17lbr, not a 76.2mm.

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