Beta Patch (v 499)

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grimreffer2
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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby grimreffer2 » Tue 21 May 2013 16:17

ericdude88 wrote:Well, time to put into commission some heavily anti-air spam decks, or alternatively my good ol' MiG-21S spam deck...

AA nerf was really unnecessary Eugen, really unnecessary. I'm starting to wonder if the devs had actually played the game...because before this patch air spam was quite prevalent already, and quite deadly. I can only imagine the air spam now.


Learn to use Air superiority :o :shock: :o . It's a key factor in real life and now with the AA nerf it's a key factor in this game. Stop crying because your BUKs aren't op anymore. :lol:
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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby CantRushThis » Tue 21 May 2013 16:27

trotskygrad wrote:
CantRushThis wrote:
ericdude88 wrote:Well, time to put into commission some heavily anti-air spam decks, or alternatively my good ol' MiG-21S spam deck...

AA nerf was really unnecessary Eugen, really unnecessary. I'm starting to wonder if the devs had actually played the game...because before this patch air spam was quite prevalent already, and quite deadly. I can only imagine the air spam now.

Get some fighter jets in the air. Should help.

fighters will get shot down if they try to attack helis within their own AA umbrella.

With the reduced IR Ranges, jets have a somewhat "easier" life now.
And if Helos stay back over their Air cover, they're not doing the harassment job they could and are kept back in a single area - I'd say that's a plus for you, too.

Not saying this is the be-all, end-all solution, as choppers have been on my mind as soon as I saw the changes yesterday too, but just saying - try it out, it's still a beta and when they find out it doesn't work, they can still revert some of it.
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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby Soundwolf776 » Tue 21 May 2013 16:32

Amazing. Now any helicopter, including transport ones, can fly up to Osa-AKM, Rapier and others (except Hawks and Buk) and destroy it with non-guided rockets from a safe distance. Poor, poor Brits (as we still have Tunguskas and they have nuthin').

Which is probably right, as radar SAMs aren't good helo hunters.

But. AAA. I'm sorry I need to bring this up again and again, but: why you keep AAA so worthless against helicopters while buffing their anti-plane abilities from time to time? As the best example, british deck is crying out in desperation for an increased range against helos for AAA - this way, Rapier can work against jets and Falcons can scare off helicopters.

With it's current 1750m range, it's downright useless, as any half sane player won't send his helos over unreconnoitered terrrain 19 out of 20 games and so he wouldn't fall into a short-ranged ambush - and in that single one when he does, he'll probably do so with spamhelo rush and would be able to kill AAA faster than it kills a single helo.

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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby trotskygrad » Tue 21 May 2013 16:33

CantRushThis wrote:With the reduced IR Ranges, jets have a somewhat "easier" life now.
And if Helos stay back over their Air cover, they're not doing the harassment job they could and are kept back in a single area - I'd say that's a plus for you, too.


Not saying this is the be-all, end-all solution, as choppers have been on my mind as soon as I saw the changes yesterday too, but just saying - try it out, it's still a beta and when they find out it doesn't work, they can still revert some of it.

it was pretty bad yesterday and it's worse today.

and helicopter used as "static defensive turrets" are actually really damn effective
NEXT TIME I SEE A DAMN FLAMEWAR INVOLVING DARTH-LAMPSHADE, FROSTPOOKY, LONERIFLE, FADE2GRAY, TROTSKYGRAD AND/OR ANYONE INVOLVED IN A DISCUSSION BETWEEN THEM I'M GOING TO HAND OUT BANS TO ANYONE USING ANYTHING LOOKING REMOTELY LIKE AN AD-HOMINEM

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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby Beluga Mariachi » Tue 21 May 2013 16:35

Jaguar ECM and Viggen veterancy were both changed but not mentioned in the notes.

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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby nutegunray » Tue 21 May 2013 16:36

EugSupport wrote:
- S24 rockets power increased


Yay, now the Mig-23 is mildly usable, tho if it fired all 8 missiles in one pass would make it a valid option. Since it comes so close over target, and then if you don't insta evac is calmly flies into enemy AA. And those are 240mm rockets, so I'd imagine it have the Pion's 203mm's HE...


EugSupport wrote:- Lim6 availability increased (+1)
- Mig19PM availability increased (+1)



Nothing will help the Polish Lim-6 from being a useless piece of garbage except a load-out change. And now with decreased allocation points it makes even less sense than ever to take it(and it never made sense to take it anyways).

As for the Mig-19... Mig-21Bis still outperforms it in every way, for only 20 points more. If it had 900km/h speed then maybe it be a valid option.
Last edited by nutegunray on Tue 21 May 2013 16:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby CantRushThis » Tue 21 May 2013 16:40

Soundwolf776 wrote:But. AAA. I'm sorry I need to bring this up again and again, but: why you keep AAA so worthless against helicopters while buffing their anti-plane abilities from time to time? As the best example, british deck is crying out in desperation for an increased range against helos for AAA - this way, Rapier can work against jets and Falcons can scare off helicopters.

With it's current 1750m range, it's downright useless, as any half sane player won't send his helos over unreconnoitered terrrain 19 out of 20 games and so he wouldn't fall into a short-ranged ambush - and in that single one when he does, he'll probably do so with spamhelo rush and would be able to kill AAA faster than it kills a single helo.

This, a hundred times this.
They don't even need to kill at those ranges. Stun and scare them away.
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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby Fri13 » Tue 21 May 2013 16:50

EugSupport wrote:- Manpads and thermal guidance SAM against aircrafts range decreased
- Radar SAM against helicopters range decreased
- Higher detection capacity for units with radar.
- ADATS missile speed increase


Seems to go wrong direction.

IR missiles should be more effective and drop more fighters than any radar unit, while radar unit should be for longer range.

In my opinion, correct fix woud have been keep IR missiles effectiveness and range same but add 1/3-1/2 range to all radar missiles.

Of course Radar AAA would get better accuracy.

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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby Fri13 » Tue 21 May 2013 17:03

CantRushThis wrote:
Soundwolf776 wrote:With it's current 1750m range, it's downright useless, as any half sane player won't send his helos over unreconnoitered terrrain 19 out of 20 games and so he wouldn't fall into a short-ranged ambush - and in that single one when he does, he'll probably do so with spamhelo rush and would be able to kill AAA faster than it kills a single helo.

This, a hundred times this.
They don't even need to kill at those ranges. Stun and scare them away.


All AA should disturb all air units attack and movement and scare player to take them away.

Like now when helicopter gets badly stunned, it starts spinning around wildly and can crash down.

Same thing is needed for fighters as well that they start maneuvers to avoid hitting and they can not engage any target at that moment.
Now fighters just simply continue without problems when they get fired upon taking dozens of hits from AAA and when AA missiles hit them they don't care so long they get stunned or destroyed.

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Re: Beta Patch (v 499)

Postby Slack » Tue 21 May 2013 17:06

EugSupport wrote:- ADATS missile speed increase

I am weeping tears of joy.

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