The Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby Arch » Sun 2 Jun 2013 20:25

I think that Wargame shouldn't be able to be essentially a turn based game, instead there could be pace scaling to aid new players.

Also, customizing icons, you can overcome most the faults with having to look into unit ID and so on.

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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby fabius » Sun 2 Jun 2013 20:49

eddyvegasgames wrote:It's practically a crime against nature that this game doesn't have pause and give orders in SP. Such a pretty game. Sticky zoom works so well. So many decisions to mull over. It's a cryin' shame, I tell ya. I fany game deserves pause and give orders, this is the one. That is all.

EV


Crime against nature! And the time spent on the graphics for sure.

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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby TheFunnyOne1125 » Sun 2 Jun 2013 20:54

RTS......
Doesn't it stand for "Real-Time Strategy"?
Im a little confused.
Pausing the game doesn't let you look at the action. Because its paused.
If you wanna enjoy the action save replay, then watch it all in slow-mo. 8-)

If you don't like it shouldn't you be playing a turn based strategy game?
I open the forum for'em. They're waiting for me to chime in
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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby fabius » Sun 2 Jun 2013 21:10

TheFunnyOne1125 wrote:RTS......
Doesn't it stand for "Real-Time Strategy"?
Im a little confused.
Pausing the game doesn't let you look at the action. Because its paused.
If you wanna enjoy the action save replay, then watch it all in slow-mo. 8-)

If you don't like it shouldn't you be playing a turn based strategy game?


Watching the replay is, well watching a replay. Take the sports event analogy, why don't we just watch the game on a ticker tape as that's what a most of ALB is zoomed out to quickly issue orders and respond. And it's not just me. I've watched a lot of user vids on youtube and most of the time is zoomed out just looking at Nato type symbols. And these are EE veterans!!! So yes watch the final via a score board ticker tape and then go watch the actual game in detail after we know the result. I don't want to watch replay, I know the outcome then, after a battle I want to play the next.

That's a crime and heresy Funnyone!!

Alternatively, pause look around, assess situation, plan, issue orders and watch in glorious graphics and seeing the outcome live. It's the future that's been standard in RTS for years.

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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby CommissarDornez » Sun 2 Jun 2013 21:32

The lack of a pause system really isn't that rare and I don't think needs to be implemented into the game, all of Eugen systems games lack a pause system as do Relics and the Command & Conquer franchise amongst others, don't quote me on the C&C thing but I don't recall them having a pause feature, the point being the very essence of Wargame is the way events happen on the fly and your ability to react to them.

Seems like it would require some effort to implement for rather a niche group of players too, I somehow doubt you'll see the feature added unless suddenly the whole community breaks out in rage at the lack of a pause feature.
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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby TheFunnyOne1125 » Sun 2 Jun 2013 21:45

fabius wrote:
TheFunnyOne1125 wrote:RTS......
Doesn't it stand for "Real-Time Strategy"?
Im a little confused.
Pausing the game doesn't let you look at the action. Because its paused.
If you wanna enjoy the action save replay, then watch it all in slow-mo. 8-)

If you don't like it shouldn't you be playing a turn based strategy game?


Watching the replay is, well watching a replay. Take the sports event analogy, why don't we just watch the game on a ticker tape as that's what a most of ALB is zoomed out to quickly issue orders and respond. And it's not just me. I've watched a lot of user vids on youtube and most of the time is zoomed out just looking at Nato type symbols. And these are EE veterans!!! So yes watch the final via a score board ticker tape and then go watch the actual game in detail after we know the result. I don't want to watch replay, I know the outcome then, after a battle I want to play the next.

That's a crime and heresy Funnyone!!

Alternatively, pause look around, assess situation, plan, issue orders and watch in glorious graphics and seeing the outcome live. It's the future that's been standard in RTS for years.


Not really.....
But the point is your playing the game.
Football players don't pause in the middle of a play and address the situation. So that analogy doesn't really work.
You'd be "watching" the football game. And for the people "watching" the football game there are replays and rewinds.

The "players" don't get to pause. So as a "real-time strategy player", let me repeat "player". You don't have that luxury.

You should be paying attention to those units flanking you. ;)
Not the absolute beautiful explosions and mahyem. Even though they are nice. :D

fabius wrote:Alternatively, pause look around, assess situation, plan, issue orders and watch in glorious graphics and seeing the outcome live. It's the future that's been standard in RTS for years.

^ This makes me lol soooooo hard.
Your describing a "turn based strategy game". :geek:
I open the forum for'em. They're waiting for me to chime in
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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby raider_1001 » Sun 2 Jun 2013 22:06

My food for thought...

Argument for Pause System:

- Noob players can maintain situation awareness when there is a huge information overload in SP.
- Noob players don't have to train themselves in click per second before starting to have fun in SP.
- It give people time to think about a strategy in the middle of a complex battle in SP.
- It will save few minutes under the 20 minute campaign battle timer in SP.
- A lot of other large scale/fast paced RTS has this feature in SP.
- A lot of people got turned off by EE because it has no pause feature is SP.
- MP and expert players can opt out of the pause feature because it is toggleable.

Argument against Pause System:

- Circumvent the 20 minute campaign battle timer is an exploit.
- It does not prepare SP player for the pace of MP.
- It may be hard to balance SP difficulties with the pause feature.
- It is not the vision of Eugene to create pauseable SP.
- EE and ALB are for people who "get it".
- On principle R in RTS, ALB and EE should not be playable with pause feature.

My two cents:

- It is impossible for noobs to learn to play if they can't maintain situation awareness in the first place.
- A lot of game industry research has already shown that majority of people who play SP will never ever touch MP.
- According to the concept of Kano Satisfaction Levels, if a lot of competitors and industry leaders has implemented a feature for a long time, then that feature will be required to meet Desired and Expected Quality levels. A product cannot maintain customer satisfaction without meeting Desired and Expected Quality levels. In another word, be prepared to face the wrath of customers who don't "get it".

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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby fabius » Sun 2 Jun 2013 22:34

TheFunnyOne1125 wrote:
Not really.....
But the point is your playing the game.
Football players don't pause in the middle of a play and address the situation. So that analogy doesn't really work.
You'd be "watching" the football game. And for the people "watching" the football game there are replays and rewinds.

The "players" don't get to pause. So as a "real-time strategy player", let me repeat "player". You don't have that luxury.

You should be paying attention to those units flanking you. ;)
Not the absolute beautiful explosions and mahyem. Even though they are nice. :D

This makes me lol soooooo hard.
Your describing a "turn based strategy game". :geek:


I politely suggest that you think a little more about that one. Because most sports do have a 'pause' and think about it a moment, minute, or 15. Not just the managers either, which is kind of our role not each soldier. Watch Ali in the corner of some of his bouts- he's having a good think alright, let alone all the other sports.

Have you ever played turn-based? I'm not being insulting, just genuinely asking because they are so different to pausing real-time.

Relics and the Command & Conquer franchise

You know I don't see those games in the same league as ALB.
Some RTS like those really lean towards the units and explosions real time- but not so much strategy. Others lean towards the strategy more so. I think ALB lends itself well to leaning towards strategy. And it's optional so don't want to then don't pause.

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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby raider_1001 » Sun 2 Jun 2013 22:49

Relics and the Command & Conquer franchise


I can pause in Homeworld 2 and COH 1...and currently the major RTS competition for the next few months are COH 2 and ALB. Justified or not, the lack of pause feature does not look pretty in this context to be honest...unless raising the middle finger is a valid solution to this complaint.

Edit:

all of Eugen systems games lack a pause system


Cough...Act of War Series...cough...

Surprisingly, with AoW:HT and its ultra spamming AI, Eugene was actually humane enough to expand the pause function to allow players to deal with it. Down the memory hole I guess...
Last edited by raider_1001 on Mon 3 Jun 2013 02:00, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Thw Holy Wholly "Pause & Order" Thread

Postby fabius » Sun 2 Jun 2013 22:58

raider_1001 wrote:My food for thought...

Argument for Pause System:

- Noob players can maintain situation awareness when there is a huge information overload in SP.
- Noob players don't have to train themselves in click per second before starting to have fun in SP.
- It give people time to think about a strategy in the middle of a complex battle in SP.
- It will save few minutes under the 20 minute campaign battle timer in SP.
- A lot of other large scale/fast paced RTS has this feature in SP.
- A lot of people got turned off by EE because it has no pause feature is SP.
- MP and expert players can opt out of the pause feature because it is toggleable.

Argument against Pause System:

- Circumvent the 20 minute campaign battle timer is an exploit.
- It does not prepare SP player for the pace of MP.
- It may be hard to balance SP difficulties with the pause feature.
- It is not the vision of Eugene to create pauseable SP.
- EE and ALB are for people who "get it".
- On principle R in RTS, ALB and EE should not be playable with pause feature.

My two cents:

- It is impossible for noobs to learn to play if they can't maintain situation awareness in the first place.
- A lot of game industry research has already shown that majority of people who play SP will never ever touch MP.
- According to the concept of Kano Satisfaction Levels, if a lot of competitors and industry leaders has implemented a feature for a long time, then that feature will be required to meet Desired and Expected Quality levels. A product cannot maintain customer satisfaction without meeting Desired and Expected Quality levels. In another word, be prepared to face the wrath of customers who don't "get it".


Great post, thanks for your thoughts.

For sure the pause will help noobs. But it soooo much more than that. It's also a preferred play style.
And yes it won't take us noobs all the way to prepared for MP but neither does no pause :)

Arguments against. I guess it could impact 20 minute timer, but in SP or agreed 1v1 campaign who cares if exploit.

Your last two points about SP not touching MP and Kano Satisfaction Levels are excellent. Just to confirm from a sample of one, I mostly play SP but will do MP. And I did assume there would be a pause! :roll:

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