War, War never changes!

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Bald3r
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War, War never changes!

Postby Bald3r » Mon 17 Jun 2013 09:29

As a military person myself, I must say that this game is something I have been looking forward to for all my life.
I have never seen such realism in a RTS engine before.
They have nailed so much, and yet (unfortunately) it seems like this game is going the wrong way.
How can that be?
Well balance and nerfs.....

Let me first tell you this; anyone with live military experience will agree with this.

WAR IS NOT BALANCED.

If war was balanced, no one would initiate into one.
War is all about getting the advantage.

It saddens me to see that stats for weapons and vehicles are being more and more streamlined.
They should have the statistics of their real life counterparts. Nothing more, nothing less.
Cost should also be adjusted for real life cost, that would BALANCE the OP stuff out.
NATO equipment is focused around quality and defense. PACT equipment is focused around quantity and offense.
This is pretty simple.

Who in their right mind would start shooting a 9mm SMG at 525 yards? You would have no chance in hell of ever hitting anything at that range, and even if you got lucky enough, it would never penetrate the skin.
Why can I shoot just as far with a 5.56 as I can a 7.62?
(I am aware that the SMG will not be as accurate as the AR, as the CR etc.)

If I am trying to say anything with this rant, its this:
If you want to "balance" the game, adjust the stats of the units, equipment and vehicles to their real life counterparts.
Cost + availibility of said units and vehicles will be your balance switch, and should be the only thing you nerf and buff.

Please do not wreck this game, because the vocal minority is squealing for "moar balance, X is OP"
You have an incredible well made game, you have the right vision for the game.
Do not start to waver when you are so close to perfection :)

This engine is almost good enough to be used in the military for tactical trainers :)

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Arch
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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby Arch » Mon 17 Jun 2013 09:37

I agree.

The game is not advanced enough to be a sim, but if you adjust the performance and cost of units RELATIVE TO EACHOTHER (A tank can fire 2km, a SAM can fire 6km, an AGM can fire 4km, for example) with realism and some gameplay in mind, it will go well.

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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby jmpveg22 » Mon 17 Jun 2013 09:38

Bald3r wrote:As a military person myself, I must say that this game is something I have been looking forward to for all my life.
I have never seen such realism in a RTS engine before.
They have nailed so much, and yet (unfortunately) it seems like this game is going the wrong way.
How can that be?
Well balance and nerfs.....

Let me first tell you this; anyone with live military experience will agree with this.

WAR IS NOT BALANCED.

If war was balanced, no one would initiate into one.
War is all about getting the advantage.

It saddens me to see that stats for weapons and vehicles are being more and more streamlined.
They should have the statistics of their real life counterparts. Nothing more, nothing less.
Cost should also be adjusted for real life cost, that would BALANCE the OP stuff out.
NATO equipment is focused around quality and defense. PACT equipment is focused around quantity and offense.
This is pretty simple.

Who in their right mind would start shooting a 9mm SMG at 525 yards? You would have no chance in hell of ever hitting anything at that range, and even if you got lucky enough, it would never penetrate the skin.
Why can I shoot just as far with a 5.56 as I can a 7.62?
(I am aware that the SMG will not be as accurate as the AR, as the CR etc.)

If I am trying to say anything with this rant, its this:
If you want to "balance" the game, adjust the stats of the units, equipment and vehicles to their real life counterparts.
Cost + availibility of said units and vehicles will be your balance switch, and should be the only thing you nerf and buff.

Please do not wreck this game, because the vocal minority is squealing for "moar balance, X is OP"
You have an incredible well made game, you have the right vision for the game.
Do not start to waver when you are so close to perfection :)

This engine is almost good enough to be used in the military for tactical trainers :)



A MASSIVE +1... many of us have been SCREAMING this for weeks now. Sadly it appears our appeals for greatness have fallen upon deaf hears.

More recently... viewtopic.php?f=91&t=31677

Yuibernd
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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby Yuibernd » Mon 17 Jun 2013 09:45

Wont happen because 90%+ of the players would be to stupid to use the advantages and disadvantages.

Also the maps are to small/not realistic to use real tactics.

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Arch
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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby Arch » Mon 17 Jun 2013 09:47

Yuibernd wrote:Wont happen because 90%+ of the players would be to stupid to use the advantages and disadvantages.

Also the maps are to small/not realistic to use real tactics.


The maps are good enough to use real tactics. Real strategy, maybe not.

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Bald3r
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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby Bald3r » Mon 17 Jun 2013 09:50

Arch wrote:
Yuibernd wrote:Wont happen because 90%+ of the players would be to stupid to use the advantages and disadvantages.

Also the maps are to small/not realistic to use real tactics.


The maps are good enough to use real tactics. Real strategy, maybe not.



Yep most wargames are focused in an 200 km2 area, so size of the maps are fine.
Also the Cold War was not a front line war, it was a pocket war. Which the smaller maps represents fine.

EDIT: I.e. NATO never trained for holding a line, but hitting the enemy from a defensive position, and withdrawing and re-positioning to a new one, when forces became overwhelming.

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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby Bryan » Mon 17 Jun 2013 09:58

+1
So far SOME things are done right...others not so...
All tank guns should get 500m increase with current AP! Real MBTs shoot up to 2.5km with HEAT and 5km with HESH!
TOW and HOT should be 3.5km! Kokon and Atavka should be 4km!
Konkurs should be 4km!
All SACLOS and Laser ATGM should be 90% accuracy!
All Soviet tank ATGM range to 4km! But slow aiming time to make up for switching of rounds(is it even possible in autoloader?)
All autocannons shooting up to 2km to stun! Reduce their AP!!!!
All good SPAAGs should shred helicopters!
35mm AA shoot out to 4-5km!
Realistic AA range, accuracy and power!!
Transports can be used to supply!
Limited transport helicopters!
Infantry can hide!
All scales, ROF, accuracy, AP, price, range should be somewhat realistic!
Remove MIG-31 and Tomcat(maybe)! :?
Artillery must be bought in a battery!
Battalion sized assaults!

And its 525meters not yards

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Bald3r
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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby Bald3r » Mon 17 Jun 2013 10:07

Yea don't know why I translate meters to yards, it was a mistake. I know a yard is 0.9 meter ;)

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Mako
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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby Mako » Mon 17 Jun 2013 10:10

Guess what buddy, war isn't fun.

And this isn't a sim, its a wargame.


Edit: I actually do agree with many points... just not the "war isn't balanced and so this game shouldn't be" vibe
Last edited by Mako on Mon 17 Jun 2013 10:12, edited 1 time in total.
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

Yuibernd
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Re: War, War never changes!

Postby Yuibernd » Mon 17 Jun 2013 10:10

Bald3r wrote:EDIT: I.e. NATO never trained for holding a line, but hitting the enemy from a defensive position, and withdrawing and re-positioning to a new one, when forces became overwhelming.

Exactly this is what you cant do without losing the game. :roll:

If you retreat from a reinforcment/high point zone you are at a nearly uncounterable disadvantage after 5 minutes.

Moving warfare is not possible in W:AB as the maps are to small. As long as you can cover every part of the map with enough units to immediately counter an attack there will never be real armoured warfare.

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