minor vs minor what are the most balanced matchups?

[spyker92]

Even with a massive SEAD campaign, and maybe even air dominance, what does E-Germany have that can stop a leopard 2a4?

[chrisnz]

I think France and Poland are roughly equal.

Really? tbh France has better everything then Poland except maybe recon (poland gets exceptional mi2) and heavy tank (t-72wilk has good armour but 6 accuracy).

Which has better tanks depends on what you value in a tank. French tanks are very accurate but have little armor and most lack stabilizers at all, let alone bad ones. Polish tanks are the inverse: inaccurate with good armor.

Poland has better helicopters than France, no contest. Poland has better and more AA choppers, and Poland has versatile gunships with 10hp vs traffic helicopters with low HP and usually 1 weapon.

To make up for worse helos, France has a better air force, though Poland's is nothing to scoff at.

Both have pretty bad regular infantry, but Poland's is better (6acc AR vs 5acc SMG). Elite troops are comparable. I give Infantry to Poland thanks to them having an RPO unit. That combined with napalm planes means they're going to have a significant advantage in infantry engagements.

Well i would argue france would have easily have air superiority due to better airforce (especially air to air) and better aa (roland 2 is amazing). France definitely has the harder hitting atgms, along with decent range chopper atgm (hot1 e.t.c).

Poland is a good nation don't get me wrong (wilk looks sexy) but France counters it very well. The mi-35 is definitely a good helicopter but it is countered by saclos roland, the hot missiles carried by gazzele will outrange poland aa except maybe for the kub (cant remember its range vs choppers) but that has a 35% chance of hitting(it is also possible for gazzeles to be small size which i don't remrmeber) with a horrible rof.

Oh and i also think off the top of my head france has better infantry, based off the fact that the metys and fagot suck (no pun intended) and the strela 2 is also very old. Where as France has milan f1 which already is better, accompanied by death itself; "milan f2".

Maybe if Polands tanks were greater then Frances tanks (which imo is not the case right now, mostly due to amx being so dam accurate with high ap) relative to the difference of atgm strength between the two they would be a close match, t-72 buff anyone? Could argue Poland is a minor but it would be nice if one nwsp country could be tiered up with a semi power (not us or a minor).

[Eddy Murphy]

I dont think any minor can compete with W.Germany, if the Leopard2a4 is supported by good Recon and AA is a very good steamroller in the right hands.

Good matchups would be sweden vs poland/czech/e.germany

[elmoking]

WRT Leopard 2, there are some NSWP counters. Unfortunately b/c of marder roland 2, you will be trading them at a 1:1 ratio unless youre able to snipe the roland 2 early.

Su-22M3 (POL) has 2 ap 28 SALH missiles.

MiG-23BN (CZE) has also 2 ap 28 missiles tho they are SACLOS, not SALH. Czechs also have 1000kg bombs which is not ideal but possible, maybe.

GDR has clusters. LOL

Tbf they are not reliable counters. The problem for NSWP is that Kokon has 20 AP.

[REDDQ]

Yes, OP Roland 2 makes it very difficult.

But to all,
Obviously hammering your forces frontally against Leo wont do. Let's remember that 4 Leo2A4 cost 600p, which is A LOT. 8 WILKs is 640. So German forces will be smaller but of higher quality what make it vulnerable to stunning and oversaturating with targets. Also you can try bringing cheap Mi-2s, oversaturating Roland 2 and finishing up with following Mi-24W.

Even with a massive SEAD campaign, and maybe even air dominance, what does E-Germany have that can stop a leopard 2a4?

If SEAD is successful than game is pretty much over. Although it is pretty big IF.

[George551]

Depending on what you mean by minor, I would say that the best Minor contest would be UK v W Germany v France, though not everyone counts those as minors (as you get a lower bonus in activation points for them).

On a balanced match up note, probably Czechoslovakia v Poland might be fun, or East Germany vs one of the True nato minors (Scandinavia and Canada) would be pretty interesting.

[elmoking]

REDDQ is right that if you kill all nato AA with SEAD, leopard 2s will die. They will be killed by mi24/35, theres no way to get around that.

For E Germany v W Germany, this is possible, quite possible against a player with poor micro, because W German AA is all radar, and the E German SEAD is v. good