T72 tank underpowered and useless

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TheFunnyOne1125
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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby TheFunnyOne1125 » Wed 3 Jul 2013 03:00

Better armor.

That is all.
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Scharnberg
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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby Scharnberg » Wed 3 Jul 2013 03:45

Spoiler : Comparing T-72 models with NATO tanks :
Sorry to say it but T-72A and T-72B1 are fair priced and fair stat´ed. If you look at those which they are comparable with they are quite good.

With T-72A is comparable with the Chieftan Mk. 10, the leopard 1a4 and the M60A3 Patton (also the danish leopard 1a3dk and the norwayigan one but im not gonna take those as it is late and im tried, maybe im gonna edit this post tomorrow and put them in).

T-72A vs. Chieftan Mk. 10 :
Price: 60 vs. 65
Range: Equal
Accuracy: 5 vs. 9
AP: 14 vs. 15
HE: 4 vs. 3
ROF: 7 vs. 6
Front AR: 13 vs. 14
Top AR: 2. vs. 3
speed: 60 vs. 40

If you look at them you see that the T72A is worse in everything except: ROF, speed and HE. This means as a defensive tank the Chieftain is ALOT better but as a attacking tank the T-72A is better as it because of higher speed is capable of getting within range of the target faster and because of the speed it also have a good change of retreating if the attack goes badly..

T-72A vs. Leopard 1a4 (im not comparing it with the 1a5 as you only get 4 of them) :
Price: 60 vs 55
Range: Equal
Accuracy: 5 vs. 6
AP: 14 vs. 12
HE: 4 vs. 3
ROF: 7 vs. 8
Front AR: 13 vs. 10
Top AR: 2. vs. 2
speed: 60 vs. 65

If you look at them you see that the T72A is better in everything except ROF and some very minor acc and speed diffrence. Becaue the T-72A has better armor and AP plus more or less same speed it is better on both the defensive and offensive compared to the Leopard 1a4.

T-72A vs. M60A3 Patton :
Price: 60 vs. 60
Range: Equal
Accuracy: 5 vs. 8
AP: 14 vs. 13
HE: 4 vs. 3
ROF: 7 vs. 10
Front AR: 13 vs. 9
Top AR: 2. vs. 2
speed: 60 vs. 60

If you look at them you see that the T72A has a better AP and better front armor. But has serious less ROF and ACC which means that the T-72A and the M60A3 Patton are more or less equal on the offensive as the very low front armor on the Patton makes it very vurnable but the high accuracy and rate of fire makes it a better killer. On the defensive i would say the the T-72A is better as the defensive tank generaly gets the first shots off and it simply just have alot more front armor which means the Patton has to ge within 2000m to do any serious dmg to the T-72A.


The T-72B1 is comparable with the M1 ABRAMS and the Leopard 2.

T-72B1 vs. M1 ABRAMS :
Price: 90 vs. 90
Range: 2275 vs. 2100
Accuracy: 7 vs. 8
AP: 18 vs. 13
HE: 4 vs. 3
ROF: 7 vs. 10
Front AR: 15 vs. 15
Top AR: 4. vs. 3
speed: 70 vs. 70
Stabilizer: medium vs. medium

If you look at them you see that the T-72B1 has better Range, AP and top armor. The only place where it is weaker is in rate of fire. There is not anything to argue here the T-72B1 is alot better in every situation and more cost efficient.

T-72B1 vs. Leopard 2 :
Price: 90 vs. 110
Range: 2275 vs. 2275
Accuracy: 7 vs. 7
AP: 18 vs. 16
HE: 4 vs. 3
ROF: 7 vs. 10
Front AR: 15 vs. 15
Top AR: 4. vs. 3
Speed: 70 vs. 70
Stabilizer: medium vs. good

If you look at them you see that the T-72B1 it has better AP and better top armor but has worse ROF and stabilizers. though because of the higher AP they are very equal on the offensive, but the Leopard 2 proberly wins a very very small victory here. But on the defensive the T-72B1 is a good amount better because of the higher AP which can do dmg to higher tier tanks.

Well and just for the fun of it lets compare it to the most heavy armored unit in the game.
T-72B1 vs. Challenger 1 :
Price: 90 vs. 130
Range: 2275 vs. 2275
Accuracy: 7 vs. 10
AP: 18 vs. 17
HE: 4 vs. 3
ROF: 7 vs. 7
Front AR: 19 vs. 15
Top AR: 4. vs. 4
Speed: 70 vs. 55
Stabilizer: medium vs. medium

If you look at them you see that the T-72B1 it has a better AP and speed but is lacking in ACC and seriouly in front armor which makes the Challenger 1 better in every situation. On full range the Challenger can do 2-3 dmg to the T-72B1 while it can do 0. So against a top-tier tank it is laking heavly. But the funny thing is the diffrence between these two units aint that big.

By the way Poerisija, who in this thread compared the PACT T-72M to the french AMX 30B2 Brennus, 3 words WTF. You cant compare any nations tanks to the french they are glass cannons high acc, ap and speed but very low armor.
Last edited by Scharnberg on Wed 3 Jul 2013 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
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elmoking
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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby elmoking » Wed 3 Jul 2013 04:39

T-72 is not useless. you are just using it wrong.
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warsawpactarmor
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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby warsawpactarmor » Wed 3 Jul 2013 05:00

Huh. Thanks for posting that, Scharnberg. I like T-72s generally and use them a fair amount in the game, but was sort of feeling (without anything concrete to base it on) that they were a little underpowered, but then I read your post and went and checked the stats for myself. Interestingly, all four Warsaw Pact 60-point T-72s have identical stats except for the actual Soviet T-72A, which has slightly weaker frontal armor. Compared to the four common NATO 60-point MBTs - M60A3, Strv103B, Leopard C1, and Leopard 1A5, all the T-72s are more heavily armored and have better armor penetration, but poorer accuracy, especially on the move (except as against the Strv 103B, of course).

And this general theme of better frontal armor and higher-AP main gun at the cost of poorer accuracy seems to be carried on in the cheaper T-72s and their NATO counterparts. So, they hit hard, can take a punch, aren't terribly accurate especially when moving, and are relatively cheap and plentiful. That seems to more or less square with my general impression of the entire real-world T-72 series, at least as used by the USSR and its Warsaw Pact allies.

So now my only issue with this game is Hinds flying around with their landing gear down.
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Mako
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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby Mako » Wed 3 Jul 2013 05:04

FLX wrote:Or we can play a game : first thread named X is useless, I read it and if it's true I buff the unit.
second thread called X is useless (plz buff), I read the first three messages then I delet the changes I just made
third thread called X is useless (wtf eugen you idiots !), I read the first three lines of the OP then I nerf the unit even more ! :twisted:



Can we do this pls?
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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby Zoring » Wed 3 Jul 2013 05:15

If it was about 10 points cheaper i'd definitely take them in much larger numbers. The T62 though, that is actually the worst tank for it's points values. Beat up on that.
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NATO Potato
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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby NATO Potato » Wed 3 Jul 2013 06:14

I think the main problem is the amount of income you get. There is no reason really to take the lower tier tanks, other than cheap meatshields or attacking units. That would be the only time to use the T72, as it would have been used in a real conflict, which is to rush forward and do as much damage as possible to a defensive line. don't underestimate the base T72 Ural for this.

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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby Dimonay » Wed 3 Jul 2013 08:26

There are two problems with most T-72's

1, vet scale with acc.
Meaning the better base acc you have the more acc you get from vet

2, Most medium tanks are not really worth it

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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby DiabloTigerSix » Wed 3 Jul 2013 08:34

Just give the cheap variants 14 and 16 AP respectively. Was it OP in W:EE? Nope.

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TheFunnyOne1125
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Re: T72 tank underpowered and useless

Postby TheFunnyOne1125 » Wed 3 Jul 2013 08:53

That long post should be in a spoiler Scharnberg. :|
I open the forum for'em. They're waiting for me to chime in
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