Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Doeko
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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby Doeko » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:07

EliteSniper wrote:Played 3 matches with my friend, an hour ago and you won't believe this one. 2 BMPTs marched through 16 infantry on that Gavie ridge facing foxtrot. They wiped out all 16 without taking a loss. Another match I played, I was defending the same ridge and 4 T-64s strolled through the forest destroying all 14 infantry I housed there. Yeah infantry needs to be reverted or have crazy bonuses in forest and towns. My friend I was playing with got steamrolled in the center by 3 squads of T-55As and 2 tanks of T-80BVs. But good thing he had support from tanks and artillery with planes or we would've lost the center. It shouldn't be so easy to take a city with 3 squads of t-55s vs. 40 units of infantry.


If they were surrounded by the infantry and the infantry was all firing at it at the same time that wouldn't have happened. Most likely either all the infantry was in the same place so all stunned together or they were taken piecemeal. Either way I don't see anything wrong with this (also the BMPT is the vehicle specialized for this role, it's 80 points and it can't do much else so you would expect it to be effective).

The fact that an infantry unit can deal 2 damage from the front to a heavy tank (let's not forget 20% of 130 points is still 26 points which is more than the infantry is worth usually) is more than enough imo.

If you can get an infantry unit to fire at the side or god forbid the back of a tank it's pretty much a dead tank. I like this new mechanic. You can't just dump infantry in the forest and expect them to come out on top of anything anymore, but if you maneuver them very well and actually ambush your prey so you can shoot at it from the back or side, infantry will still be able to take down heavies.
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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby Doeko » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:11

Gopblin wrote:... So yeah. As I've said above, lack of dynamics is the gamemode fault, not game mechanics. Infantry in cover should be pretty hard to dislodge with armor. Trying to fix the gamemode by making heavy tanks the only combat arm worth a damn is really not the answer.


If you put 130 points worth of infantry into a forest and are not a complete noob, there is no way 6 units of well-placed good infantry units are going to lose to an abrams or T80-something. The odds of it going down are about 100% if you manage to panic it first with arty.

I really don't see anything wrong here. Like I said, you can't dump infantry into forests anymore and expect them to hold out. Also even if they miss they will still damage the morale of the receiving vehicle quite heavily so if you combine tanks and infantry I don't see how you can fail to hold a forest.

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Hartmann
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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby Hartmann » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:13

Now that we got rid of infantry slowing things down


Because clearly that is the case now right. They just can't give effective return fire back when cowering under a barrage of tank rounds. They still die at the same rate.

Infantry in cover should be pretty hard to dislodge with armor.


So if armour isn't their counter what is? I don't know how long you expect infantry to hold out in a barn/tiny scandinavian suburb versus multiple tanks. We're not exactly talking Stalingrad/Fallujah/Homs here. They already hold out a long time against a much more expensive force, but you also want them to be effectively shooting back? Don't make me laugh.

The more I read the more this seems like people crying about having their easy mode trump card at punishing enemy pushes taken away from them. Just dumping infantry in buildings and then NOT supporting them with anything else suddenly doesn't kill enemy tanks anymore, cry me a river.

Are you going to post a replay of this leading to bad gameplay, or do I get the usual response to that request?

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triumph
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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby triumph » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:20

Bottom line is that quad stack a-move, a lack of infantry unit mixing[just RPO/Flash and an RPG trooper is not deep] and the micro (seriously, this game requires barely any APM or multi-tasking), and no management being greater than forces that are managed, like an ATGM stack in houses being bombarded and hitting with most of their shots is and was absurd. Totally and completely absurd.

A wonky vet system is not good.

Not being able to take offensive action against an AFK player without taking losses without using overly gamey methods is not good.


When Eugen settles the vet issue (given there truly is one, i'll say yes there is) then perhaps a quantity or pricing issue will emerge from new meta game.

And,
Conquest is otw from what i've seen on the forum. This is not the right place or time to scream for a major redesign.

Conquest or bust. :P
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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby Guggy » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:22

triumph wrote:Conquest is otw from what i've seen on the forum. This is not the right place or time to scream for a major redesign.

Conquest or bust. :P


Confirming its well on its way, alongside another game-mode I wasnt expecting but am even more excited for :)

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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby DoktorvonWer » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:24

Guggy wrote:
triumph wrote:Conquest is otw from what i've seen on the forum. This is not the right place or time to scream for a major redesign.

Conquest or bust. :P


Confirming its well on its way, alongside another game-mode I wasnt expecting but am even more excited for :)


CTF? King of the Hill?

No, wait... DINOSAUR MODE???!!! :mrgreen:
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solaris
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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby solaris » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:25

EliteSniper wrote:OPEN YOUR EYES. Not once in that thread did I say I was leaving the forums. I said I was leaving ALB, not the forums, so go troll someplace else.


Why're you still on the ALB forums if you don't play the game?
Anecdotes do not count for game balance.

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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby Gneckes » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:37

Hartmann wrote:Cheap tanks are pretty bad in the current meta, a higher tier tank can put a stop to a huge amount of these with minimal risk.
Depends. In open terrain, easily. In ambush or as a rear-slope defense (or the analogue behind a forest or city), I find a few cheap tanks to be quite cost efficient.
I

I also don't see how being able to slow progress to a grind simply by dumping infantry in buildings is a good thing. You can stil slow down someone by doing that, but at least it's not easy mode defending anymore. You can still slow your enemies attack, but can't really expect making kills unless your enemy is careless. The game is way more fluid when JUST using infantry is not effective at seriously hampering an armoured attack.


Completely agree. This is what I meant when I said that it might be a (wobbly) step away from Sitzkrieg.

What I'm understanding from this is that you want unsupported infantry to win against unsupported tanks. They are both unsupported, why don't you bring armour to help defend? What do you have against using armour/infantry in conjunction? Is it so terrible that you have to unit mix to achieve the best results?


I agree, again. Especially since tanks are naturally quite a bit more expensive than Infantry. I don't mind infantry killing tanks, either, but the way they were the defensive end-all unit was a bit stupid.
It might be helpful to illustrate your points with ingame examples, post a replay where we can see what exactly you have issues with.

I agree btw about the veterancy not doing enough, but overall the game feels much more dynamic with attacking being easier. And if anything, the game has huge issues with attacking being hard. Making attacking easier is a good thing right now.


Replays, replays, reeeeeplays!!

And yeah, I've yet to play enough to really feel the effects of the patch, but hopefully we'll get some movement.
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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby HEROFOX » Sat 13 Jul 2013 02:42

solaris wrote:
EliteSniper wrote:OPEN YOUR EYES. Not once in that thread did I say I was leaving the forums. I said I was leaving ALB, not the forums, so go troll someplace else.


Why're you still on the ALB forums if you don't play the game?


To troll of course.
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Re: Infantry vs Tanks - What Happened?

Postby EliteSniper » Sat 13 Jul 2013 03:06

:(
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