F-15c vs Su-27s

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Halfbodied Jish
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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby Halfbodied Jish » Mon 15 Jul 2013 05:23

Off topic slightly but daaaaaang!

Should the Wild Weasel be in this post instead? Is it really that effective against planes?
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EricTerminator
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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby EricTerminator » Mon 15 Jul 2013 05:28

The F-4G is probably the most COST-EFFECTIVE dogfighter you can get for NATO ; it may not be the best in pure performance (I'd say it's the F-15C.), but the exceptional ECM makes it extremely hard to shoot down, and a pair of AIM-9Ls and the M61A1 cannon are good for dogfighting.

The F-4G's maneuvrability, while not exceptional, is decent IMO. The trick is to make sure to send the F-4G first as a meatshield or to send a pair for intercepting anything that can't/won't stay out of range.
BECAUSE HUNTING CHALLENGERS WITH MIG-31S WAS TOO EASY :


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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby zbone » Mon 15 Jul 2013 05:31

EricTerminator wrote:
Guggy wrote:I'm fine aside from the F-15C only having Rookie training.


Yeah, especially if you read some sources about the level of training of the first F-15 pilots. I'm reading "The Revolt of the Majors: How the Air Force changed after Vietnam" thesis by Marshall L. Michel III. Here's where you can pick a copy : http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/handle/10415/595

On page 285 (296 for the PDF file), it reads : "A glaring example of the problem arose in the new F-15 squadrons. The pilots were hand picked by TAC headquarters as the best in the TAF..."

The thesis also suggests the average level of USAF pilots got quite good after 1977-1978, so "rookie" pilots for F-15C and F-16C makes me cry, at least for the realism aspect...

It's well established that veterancy scale in ALB has nothing to do with authenticity of realism in most cases. Its only purpose is shameless accuracy bump/nerf to pretty/ugly unit specs behind the scene.

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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby solaris » Mon 15 Jul 2013 05:32

EliteSniper wrote:Then why isn't the SU-27S a prototype?


Prototype status is not conferred for balance reasons. Prototype units in game are either out of timeframe/post 1985 or were limited production in real life. The Nighthawk and the Strike Eagle are out of timeframe, and thus prototypes.

Also, you're still here?

Halfbodied Jish wrote:Is it really that effective against planes?


The WW is a good dogfighter not because the planes stats are particularly nice overally but because of its availability (Cat C bonuses), its side ability to pop off ARMs at anything in range while it's turning and burning, and it's high ECM as a result of being a SEAD aircraft.
Anecdotes do not count for game balance.

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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby EliteSniper » Mon 15 Jul 2013 05:40

solaris wrote:
EliteSniper wrote:Then why isn't the SU-27S a prototype?


Prototype status is not conferred for balance reasons. Prototype units in game are either out of timeframe/post 1985 or were limited production in real life. The Nighthawk and the Strike Eagle are out of timeframe, and thus prototypes.


False, very false. *Exact words from Wiki* "The maiden flight for the type was conducted in 1981, and it achieved initial operating capability status in October 1983.[1] The F-117 was "acknowledged" and revealed to the world in November 1988"

Timeframe lasts till 1989(or so the youngest unit shows).

It was reviled to the world in 1988, but that doesn't mean it wasn't in operation. "initial operating capability status in October 1983"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk

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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby dzimmu » Mon 15 Jul 2013 05:44

t80u just a prototype despite the fact that he was put into operation in '85.
panzersaurkrautwefer wrote:Nor has there been a decent explanation why US debt is relevant to the fact the panzersaurkrautwefer are unable to focus on his own problems. Mental exercise: total Russia collapse. Like literally. Customs union falls into a black hole..

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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby EliteSniper » Mon 15 Jul 2013 05:47

dzimmu wrote:t80u just a prototype despite the fact that he was put into operation in '85.


Spoiler : :
"The T-80U main battle tank (1985, "U" for uluchsheniye, meaning "improvement") was designed by SKB-2 in Leningrad (hull) and the Morozov Bureau (turret and armament). It is a further development of T-80A and is powered by the 1,250 hp (919 kW) GTD-1250 gas turbine. It is a step ahead of the GTD-1000T and GTD-1000TF engines that were installed on the previous tanks of the T-80 line. This gas turbine can use jet fuels as well as diesel and low-octane gasoline, has good dynamic stability, service life, and reliability. The GTD-1250 has a built-in automatic system of dust deposits removal. It retains the T-80s high fuel consumption, which the Russian army found unacceptable during the Chechen conflicts. It is equipped with the 1A46 fire control system and a new turret. The T-80U is protected by a second generation of explosive reactive armour called Kontakt-5, which can severely dissipate the penetrative capabilities of an APFSDS round, such as the M829A1 "Silver Bullet".[18] The Kontakt-5 is integrated into the design of the turret, hull, and Brod-M deep wading equipment. Like all of the previous T-80 models, the T-80U has full length rubber side skirts protecting the sides but those above the first three road wheels are armored and are provided with lifting handles. It can fire the 9M119 Refleks (AT-11 Sniper) guided missile and the Long-Rod penetrator (HVAPFSDS) 3BM46. The remotely controlled commander's machine gun is replaced by a more flexible pintle-mounted one. A special camouflage paint distorts the tank's appearance in the visible and IR wavebands. The T-80U's 1A46 fire control system includes a laser range finder, a ballistics computer, and a more advanced 1G46 gunner's main sights, as well as thermal imaging sights, which greatly increases the T-80Us firepower over previous models. These new systems, together with the 125mm D-81TM "Rapira-3" smooth bore gun, ensures that the T-80U can accurately hit and destroy targets at a range of up to 5 kilometers (ATGMs and HV/APFSDS).

The T-80U(M) of the 1990s introduced the TO1-PO2 Agava gunner's thermal imaging sight and 9M119M Refleks-M guided missile, and later an improved 2A46M-4 version of the 125 mm gun and 1G46M gunner's sight was used"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80

All I can find on the T-80U, but I believe it was a prototype till the T-80U(m) was put into production and classified as operational in the 1990's. Not to sure tho, for I can't find really anything about it.

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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby dzimmu » Mon 15 Jul 2013 05:50

T80u (m) (Actually t80m-1 "Bars") is a modification t80u produced in 92.
panzersaurkrautwefer wrote:Nor has there been a decent explanation why US debt is relevant to the fact the panzersaurkrautwefer are unable to focus on his own problems. Mental exercise: total Russia collapse. Like literally. Customs union falls into a black hole..

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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby solaris » Mon 15 Jul 2013 06:06

EliteSniper wrote:It was reviled to the world in 1988, but that doesn't mean it wasn't in operation. "initial operating capability status in October 1983"


You totally ignored the second part of the reason units are prototyped, and that's for limited production runs. 64 total production certainly strikes me as a limited production run.
Anecdotes do not count for game balance.

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Re: F-15c vs Su-27s

Postby EliteSniper » Mon 15 Jul 2013 06:15

solaris wrote:You totally ignored the second part of the reason units are prototyped, and that's for limited production runs. 64 total production certainly strikes me as a limited production run.


Nah, 59 stealth aircraft is quite high for stealth aircraft. The B-2 only has 20 ever built, the F-117 has 59 ever built and the YF-23 stealth fighter only has 2 ever built. Prototype based on production? I think not.

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