New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

User avatar
Hob_Gadling
Captain
Posts: 1623
Joined: Tue 14 Feb 2012 00:15
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby Hob_Gadling » Sat 27 Jul 2013 23:19

BTR wrote:
thehitman009 wrote:In a game with such an emphasis on realism, statistics, and values, you can't flip all the math like a pancake two months into the game.


Why not if it makes the game more diverse?


There's the unspoken assumption that actual research went into creating the unit statistics in an effort to model them close to reality. You know, like real strategy games do. Bad news to Hitman: the numbers are pulled out of a Stetson, meaning they can change at any time since they're not really based on anything.

User avatar
Radioshow
Second-Lieutenant
Posts: 852
Joined: Mon 18 Jun 2012 00:40
Location: Canada

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby Radioshow » Sat 27 Jul 2013 23:23

Vasto wrote:People are complaining that something nicknamed the "flying tank", built in couple of thousend copies, is more armored, resilient and available than NATO counterparts...

In such a case I'll say something in MadMat's fashion:
You can only blame the NATO countries that they had different idea of gunship helicopter's role on the battlefield and vision how it should be constructed.

Currently the Mi-24 in terms of capabilities and numbers is quite realistically represented in the game. It's a workhorse PACT chopper without much alternatives, so any nerfs other then price, would make PACT crippling in the Helo category.


It's not the stats of the Mi-24 etc. that is the problem, I think its the generally higher availability, coupled with multipurpose use and being a hard to kill decent platform. You can chase off a NATO helo with any gun, not so for Mi-24's.
With the higher income on most maps, PACT can generally bring in a crapload of them. Most games I play have tons of Mi24's/28 flying around. Nato has no wheeled AA, most are slow. PACT can fly around and pick stuff off easier.
And the price of Rolands means you cant have them all over protecting everything and they never keep up with moving units.
Point out a NATO wheeled 2800m AA, or one for 20points. NATO can't spam decent AA, and Chaps are too squishy and slow to have forward, and low availability unless you bring 2 cards :lol:

In a game with only tanks, I could see the Seahawk/Lynx being OP, but since its not the Mi24 etc are much more useful in general.
[EUG]MadMat wrote:Radioshow is not a troll, he is our resident Doom Prophet.

Image

User avatar
Hidden Gunman
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2057
Joined: Fri 6 Apr 2012 07:47
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby Hidden Gunman » Sun 28 Jul 2013 01:51

As a primarily Pact player, with a focus on mech inf builds, I'm rubbing my hands with glee on this patch.

Good sensible tweaks, and just enough change to make players work harder for new solutions...nice.
A Firefly killed Wittman...

It's a 17lbr, not a 76.2mm.

User avatar
ArtyomVDNH
Corporal
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon 17 Jun 2013 18:44
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby ArtyomVDNH » Sun 28 Jul 2013 02:45

Just now coming back from a Latin convention in Vegas, and I cried manly tears of joy when I saw this patch.
I love playing USSR Mechanized and Armored, and the availability on the T80BV is quite nice. Plus, I can now afford to vet my T72As even further! I didn't use too many helicopters either, so the whole Support/Heli switch is a massive boost for me (especially with my mechanized decks), and the fact that Buks and OSAs come in fearsome quantities now? AND decent SPAAGs?
Its all I can do to not feint right now.
Also, 12 T64Bs was a long time coming IMO, especially since the armor is none too great, despite its good gun and ATGM.
The only thing between me and an awesome weekend at this point is a 20 hour road trip...

Thanks for the patch, Eugen! I wish other developers listened and were as active as y'all, but whaddaya gonna do?
~Artyom
Spoiler : :
Image

Image
In Memory of Comrade Pyzik, May He Forever Into Space

User avatar
HaryPL
Lieutenant
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon 3 Dec 2012 01:41
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby HaryPL » Sun 28 Jul 2013 08:32

Split Mi24s availability into 2 cards each, just like in case of seahawks :ugeek:

User avatar
Xeno426
Carbon 13
Posts: 11965
Joined: Tue 13 Mar 2012 21:27
Location: Acheron, Hadley's Hope
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby Xeno426 » Sun 28 Jul 2013 08:37

HaryPL wrote:Split Mi24s availability into 2 cards each, just like in case of seahawks :ugeek:

It is. Mi-24V, Mi-24VP.
Image
CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

User avatar
Mikeboy
General
Posts: 5354
Joined: Sat 27 Apr 2013 21:59
Location: Democratic People's Republic of Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby Mikeboy » Sun 28 Jul 2013 08:59

Vasto wrote:People are complaining that something nicknamed the "flying tank", built in couple of thousend copies, is more armored, resilient and available than NATO counterparts...

In such a case I'll say something in MadMat's fashion:
You can only blame the NATO countries that they had different idea of gunship helicopter's role on the battlefield and vision how it should be constructed.

Currently the Mi-24 in terms of capabilities and numbers is quite realistically represented in the game. It's a workhorse PACT chopper without much alternatives, so any nerfs other then price, would make PACT crippling in the Helo category.


I wasn't complaining about it, Pact players were treating them like they were solely ATGM carriers, they're very much not.

User avatar
HaryPL
Lieutenant
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon 3 Dec 2012 01:41
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby HaryPL » Sun 28 Jul 2013 09:21

Xeno426 wrote:
HaryPL wrote:Split Mi24s availability into 2 cards each, just like in case of seahawks :ugeek:

It is. Mi-24V, Mi-24VP.


Yes.. and one card gives you 8 or 6 of them. So in total you can get what? 28 Heavily armed, armored, 300+ km/h fast, 8x 2800m ATGM + 64/80 FFARs gunships for 4 slots that is 6 points? I have must overlooked something terribly on OTAN side that was supposed to be excelling at air things..

It's the same story as with SeaHawk, the unit ratio to card cost is too effective.
Split each of Mi24s into 2 cards, availability 0/4/3/2/0 and 0/3/2/1/0 and next steep to solving all ''OP Helis help one1one!''

Is there any valid counterargument to do such thing?

Gopblin
Major-General
Posts: 3620
Joined: Thu 24 May 2012 19:10
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby Gopblin » Sun 28 Jul 2013 09:39

HaryPL wrote:
Xeno426 wrote:
HaryPL wrote:Split Mi24s availability into 2 cards each, just like in case of seahawks :ugeek:

It is. Mi-24V, Mi-24VP.


Yes.. and one card gives you 8 or 6 of them. So in total you can get what? 28 Heavily armed, armored, 300+ km/h fast, 8x 2800m ATGM + 64/80 FFARs gunships for 4 slots that is 6 points? I have must overlooked something terribly on OTAN side that was supposed to be excelling at air things..

It's the same story as with SeaHawk, the unit ratio to card cost is too effective.
Split each of Mi24s into 2 cards, availability 0/4/3/2/0 and 0/3/2/1/0 and next steep to solving all ''OP Helis help one1one!''

Is there any valid counterargument to do such thing?


Yep, Mi24 ATGM are pretty underwhelming, and the rest of their armaments aren't that useful (sure, you can kill things with FFARs, if the enemy didn't bother to bring AA).

1 armor only protects against small arms fire, which again only comes up in weird situations such as clearing a forest with helos.

High availability per card is one of the few reasons they're worth taking at all, that and the lack of useful helos overall on PACT side.

I'd much rather have a few TOW2/Seahawk that actually kill stuff, than have to spam 4x more Mi24 just to kill heavies as effectively. Not to mention helo blobs are basically flying pinatas against a competent opponent.

Best wishes,
Daniel.
Nationality? - Russian.
Occupation? - No, no, just visiting.

User avatar
Mikeboy
General
Posts: 5354
Joined: Sat 27 Apr 2013 21:59
Location: Democratic People's Republic of Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: New balance & campaign patch (v1404)

Postby Mikeboy » Sun 28 Jul 2013 09:45

They're more versatile than NATO's ATGM helicopters though, let's look at the Hind A which you say is useless, it has the armour/strength and machine gun of a basic APC + rockets which are quite capable of stunning + it can fly. It's a great little thing for getting infantry somewhere quick and then giving them supporting fire.

If you want a dedicated tank killer that's what the Mi-28 is for.

Return to “Wargame : AirLand Battle”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests