Danish Deck Pro/Con

somekidfromno
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Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby somekidfromno » Sat 27 Jul 2013 01:56

Hi there,

I haven't deeply considered the topic, but wish to make a foray into it anyways after having recently played as the "modern" Danes a couple of times. One time to my success and the other to my relative humiliation (Me, forgetting there is smoke unlike in WEE). What i want to find out is how the Danes can best be used and what people's experience with them is like. In addition I am providing my own deck composition and short analysis of said deck.

To help with suggestions and etc., here is the deck Composition I have put together and used:

Name: Jyllands Posten, Søndag

Log.
3x Trained Centurion command
4x Trained m113 command
20x Forsynings trucks
1x Fob

Infantry:
24x Veteran Dragonerne M92 PNMK
16x Hardened " Mosegris
8 x Hardened Hamlet AA Jupiter
8x Veteran Livgarden M92 PNMK
12x Hardened " Mosegris

Support:
4x M109 (longtube)
3x M125 (mortar)
8x I-Hawk

Armor:
16 Hardened Leopard 1A3 DK
12 Trained "
16 Hardened Centurion 105mm

Recon:
4x Hardened Scout Defender
8x Veteran Jeger M92 PNMK
8x Hardened Gardhusarere "
8x " " Mosegris

Vehicle:
3x Veteran M113 I-TOW
6x Trained " "
8x Trained Laro TOW

Helo:
6x Trained Tow Defender
3x Veteran " "

Plane:
4x trained F16A
3x Draken (2 hardened 1 Elite.)

Totals:
Log: 28 units
Inf: 68 units
Sup: 15 units
Tank: 44 units
Rec: 28 units
Veh: 17 units
Helo: 9 units
Plane: 7 units

My own observations about the deck are as follows:

Pros:
1. Nice infantry availability, in good AUTOCANNON(hehe) transpos.
2. Large amount of armor in comparison to total amt of units
3. Fair amount of accurate ATGMS on mobile platforms

Cons:
1. Lack of a higher end, elite Armored force
2. Lack of assault Helos
3. Barely OK AA, no AAA
4. No real Fighter, only multiroles

For me this deck is more defensive than offensive, being able to conquer forests and the like quite well early game and holding that ground. Thereafter it has to rely on smoke screens for manouvering, and has a somewhat vulnerable recon force in the form of infantry and helos that can quickly disappear in flames and might have difficulty sufficiently supporting an advance. The autocannon transports can help infantry in movement and generally help as short range AAA, firesupport, and distractions. This I loved during my time using french AMX10s in WEE and continue to enjoy.

Tank-wise, the 1A3 is nothing to scoff at, but is essentially a medium tank in the game. Massed amounts will do much better than single units, i think. Numbers are necessary to win confrontations. In limited point games this could pose a problem. Needs smoke cover to do good an advance.

The artillery is nothing special, mortars are nice and all. Can provide smoke when necessary but have problems sufficiently suppressing and destroying HVTs, such as AA. AA platform is OK, but i have seen many a missile fail to kill planes after hitting, seems somewhat weak.

The vehicles are all merely ATGMs in mobile form. Woo. Very vulnerable and easily eliminated, best for defense methinks.

Helicopters and merely glorified ATGM platforms. Right.

Planes: I'm not very good at this part and would like to know how these are supposed to be used most effectively, the one being very much a multirole bomber and the other a multirole ATGM platform.

That being my analysis of my deck, I just want to say i am rather fascinated by the country specific decks in this game and find it rather fun to play as them as opposed to mixed nationalities. I have yet to use my norwegian deck, it having the appearance of being entirely inadequate. I have some success with the french, but i sort of know how to play them from WEE. Have had success with my PACT decks but haven't played much with them.

I am interested to know how you guys have tackled the Danes, and am looking forward to tactical advice concerning this nationality :)
Otherwise known as "Frederik von Luck"

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his." ~ My general battle plan.

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LoneRifle
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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby LoneRifle » Sat 27 Jul 2013 03:40

With Denmark, you have four strengths, Infantry, Vildcats, solid recon, and your Air Force. Your greatest weaknesses are in your AA (as you stated before, only having manpads and IHawks makes for some very interesting air defence,), having to rely on TOW vehicles to knock out PACT heavies (your leopards are good medium tanks but they obviously can't go head to head with heavy pact armor), and in your lack of ATGM infantry.

Before I start I play this deck with two friends of mine, one a pure norway and the other a pure swedish deck to complete the scandinavian trifecta for 3-3, so a lot of our deck is based on mutual support (especially in AA) artillery, and outlasting our opponents.

Denmark Battlegroup Mech
(Mechanized Bonus, No era bonus)

Logistics
3x 3 Fobs (for art, and like i said team based, the new update makes it easier to put them down at start as well)
1x 6 Command truck
1x 10 Supply trucks

Infantry
First thing you need to do is put all of your infantry in the PNMK's even the aa infantry, you will need them later on to combat PACT Tanks and Helis.
3x 36 Veteran Dragonere
3x 24 Veteran Livgarden
2x 24 Trained AA

Support
2x 16 Hardened IHawk
2x 4 Veteran 109A3

Tanks
3x 24 Hardened Leo 1a3s

Recon
1x 4x Hardened Heli Recon
2x 8 Hardened M41 Dk1 scout tanks (say what you will about scout tanks, but I likem)
1x 8 Veteran Jaegers in Heli transport

Vehicle
2x 12 Hardened ITOW Apcs

Helis
1x 6 Trained Tow Defender

Planes
2x 4 Trained f16s
2x 4 Hardened Drakkens

Your analysis was right on a lot of counts, although I think you under estimate the power of the APC (its called the Vildcat, but they took the name out which makes me sad :(). Its Autocannon stats are as good as the BMP 2 lines, and if you can get close to enemy tanks, you will annihilate them. Your Infantry are also either on par or better then comparable PACT units for there cost, and since they are all Veteran (including the Vildcats) well you know.

Unfortunately thats about it in terms of advantages you will have on the PACT. The AF is good considering what you can get, but obviously outclassed by SU27s and Mig 29/31's plus they do not have any ecm (if there is a single buk in the area, you will be in trouble). Your jets can do some serious damage but you have to save them until AA is at a minumum.

As you probably already knew, surrounding your Ihawks with manpads is your best bet (and only bet unless you have allies) at protecting yourself from sead, and having air support on standby ready to chase down any intruders, you have to be willing to sacrifice a jet to take down the Su24mps. The IHawks are scary enough and plentiful enough to scare off most regular PACT air.

Tanks....... You are going to have to have a combination of maneuver, skill, and some luck to take on the highest end pact tanks. You can edit the template I give you to get more of the lower end Tow Vehicles (since they will get the bonus because of mechanized) by getting rid of fobs for starters (like i said this is a team oriented deck). I would suggest using plenty of smoke and unloading infantry in the tanks faces with the Vildvats going in guns blazing (they cost 40 and 50 per infantry squad with apc, so you can afford some losses to take out high end tanks) with the Tow Vehicles and tanks supporting.

If you can neutralize the PACTS advantage in tanks and SEAD,you will win most drawn out TD battles, since you have far more activation points to get units with. As for points, Thats a lot tougher, and like i said before, maneuver, skill and some luck will be needed to win in those battles.
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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby Caserbob » Sat 27 Jul 2013 04:02

I've been playing around with a Danish deck in skirmish for a while (not since the patch, but I'll get a few hours in tonight) and I really enjoy them so far. One of my favorite units is the Walker Bulldog M41 DK1. They have a limited ability to conduct a reconnaissance in force and can deal quite a bit of damage in a close ambush.

I agree they are difficult to use as the real armor killers are going to be the I-TOW 113s and the inaccurate but powerful Bullpup on the Draken. For the maneuver war to work for the Danes, smoke and the terrain must be your friend. For it is only in close combat can the KE weapons of the M/92 and Leo1A3-DK become not just viable, but also deadly. One nice thing about both of these vehicles is their fast speed at 65 kph.

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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby LoneRifle » Sat 27 Jul 2013 07:28

The scout tank is indeed op. Its great for ravezda and other recon infantry hunting, They are also great aa and cv hunters.

Edit, the APC's are basically a poor mans bradley or bmp, they shred anything at close range, these guys are ridiculous on defense.
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somekidfromno
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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby somekidfromno » Sat 27 Jul 2013 19:31

@ Lonerifle: I think i'll try out that mech deck, especially those scout tanks considering both of your comments :P

I've never made a MANPAD cloud around my mechanized systems, but that is a rather good idea that i should try out.

I think there is a lot of potential with a Danish deck, considering their powerful infantry transpos. As long as the smoke does its job, i mean. Looking forward to trying a little different playstyle tonight!
Otherwise known as "Frederik von Luck"

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his." ~ My general battle plan.

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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby Starkad » Sat 27 Jul 2013 21:14

I played quite a lot with the Danish vikings, so I'll toss in a few cents as well on some of the units, based on my experience.

INF: My favorites have been the Dragonerne (Dragoons) and the Hær Hjemmeværn (Army homeguard). I prefer the dragoons over livgarden (Lifeguards), simply due to numbers and price. The dragoons are an average INF unit, and do quite well if you ask me. For transport I use M/113 or the PNMK M/92. The M/113 for areas where the dragoons will do all the fighting, and the M/113 is being used as INF support (like deep forest), or for low priority areas. The PNMK M/92 have the excellent autocannon, which will rip units apart at close range. I once had a single PNMK, which devoured 3 mostrolikikik (or how you spell it) inf squads, and a couple of BMPs, along with a single T-80 tank in a forest. I use it for areas with longer range, where I expect more than just INF and just where I expect the fighting to thick... Nice gun it has, yesh!
The Hær Hjemmeværn is a nice units, due to it's extremely low cost and high numbers. I use them massed into towns, or to guard low priority areas, and especially for roads where I dont expect the enemy to come, but where I want to know, and stop him/buy time, if he comes that way. They do quite well in ambush. Their ROF is ok, with their SMGs, but more important is that you get a high numbers of AT rockets for a low cost. Each squad have 8 rockets, and even though they aren't as good as the LAW, they rip the enemy apart, and they do it cheap!
For transport, I use Jupiter. The mosegris is a bit faster, with armor, but I simply dont care to use the resources for it.

Tankwise, Centurions suck, and the Leopard is ok, but still only a middleclass tank. You want to use them for ambush, their speed, and the you want to learn to use the reverse button alot to avoid all those ATGMs!

Next, recon. I use hussars, instead of jægers. Simply due to the price, and I dont want them to fight anyway. And I use them in PNMK, for defence of the hussars or I relocate them to kill something elsewhere.
The unarmed jeep is quite ok too, (cant remember the name now), but my favortie recon unit is the M/41 DK. it's a nice recon units, with armor and firepower, and for some reason they just seem to do very well. They can defend themself, kill and hunt down annoying units.

For heli, you want those TOW choppers, just as you want the ITOW APCs. Anything that can kill a tank is the right unit to select. What you lack in ATGM INF, you gotta have in APCs and choppers.

And last, air. The F-16 is good for stunning units, but I primary use it to kill other planes. I'm quite fond of it anyway, and use it alot to stun large formations of enemy attacking units, so my TOW units better can kill them.
The Draken is ok, with high power ATGM, which are needed, but it lacks a bit on the ability to hit with them. Also it works as a planekiller.
Last, the Starfighter is (for me) a must have! The clusterbombs for taking out tanks is just a must, for that is typical what I lack. The problem is that starfighters are a bit slow, and as all the other Danish planes, they all lack ECM. But if you are a bit careful, they Work great. Especially on defence.

Hope it gives a bit to your thoughts.

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DiabloTigerSix
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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby DiabloTigerSix » Sat 27 Jul 2013 22:55

Denmark would be viable if it could defend against helos with SPAAG or something.

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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby p.klyver » Sun 28 Jul 2013 08:48

Although i often play danish decks, most of it has allready been covered.

One point though: With the relativly light tanks and the extremely heavy infantry, i usually use the tanks to engage the enemy as far forward as my AA cover can (sometimes with the PNMK with the tanks) for then to retreat whilst firing, hopefully knocking out a few in the process. The retreat goes, if possible back to a) a fortified place like a town or a line of ATGM's. The surviving tanks withdraw into the line or go to be replenished for a counterattack. Of course this can be upset in many ways, variations of this method seems to work quite well as long as mobility is kept.

Now given that i served in the army, allow me please to nerd it a bit ;)

LoneRifle wrote:(its called the Vildcat, but they took the name out which makes me sad :().


I have never heard it been called Vildkat (yes it needs a 'K' to be danish ;) ). Usually it was called
Pansermaskinkanon or its mispelling: (trans: Armored Machine Canon)
Pansermaskinkanin which makes for armored machine rabbit.. perhaps bad humor, but hell soldiers werent ever renowned for their standup comedy;)

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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby CommissarDornez » Sun 28 Jul 2013 08:58

The lack of love for the Hær Hjemmeværnet is really disturbing me, they aren't just okay... They're amazing!

They are tied best reserve infantry in the game, along with Heimaschutzen who are equally unappreciated.
For 5 points a squad what you get is a crappy SMG, a WW2 Bazooka and an MG3 with 4000 rounds. The power of the MG3 should not be underestimated, the amount of firepower that alone can provide is amazing. The MG3 which actually allow Hær Hjemmeværnet to take and hold entire towns from Motostelki and a variety of other Pact inf, just because of the numbers you can deploy them in. Trust me 32 MG3s firing is a beautiful sight which will tear apart the enemy.

I encourage anyone who plays a Danish national deck to add them in trucks to their deck, and just spam about 12 into a city and watch as they kill everything. Even the Super Bazooka can do some damage up close and allows them to hold their own again APCs, IFVs and light tanks. But seriously for 5 points a squad, they are one of the best investments you can make for a deck. Just make sure they don't get bombed or napalmed...

DiabloTigerSix wrote:Denmark would be viable if it could defend against helos with SPAAG or something.


Could definitely do with a cheap SPAAG or something like the Swedish and Norwegian AA.

Starkad wrote:Tankwise, Centurions suck.

Centurions far from suck and for the price are insanely good value for money assuming you understand that they can't go toe to toe with modern MBTs. If you hide these in forests as ambush units they will destroy even the heaviest tanks due to the KE, assuming they're close enough, and the frontal armour is insanely good for the price, if you can master the Centurion you will get a lot of out it for the minuscule price you pay.

EDIT: Thought I'd post one of my own Danish decks if anyone feels like experimenting with mine. I've got about 5 or so and between them I've played between 15-20 hours with Denmark across all my decks, with a bit of love they have real potential.

(Note: I tend to go for vetted units of high availability for the most part, I also still exclude FOBs just because you can get an extra 2000 fuel from trucks per card)

This deck is incredibly recon heavy, which may not be to some players style, so replacing some recon with more planes or infantry is perfectly reasonable. I'm more the sort of guy who sends tons of recon everywhere while special forces harass your CVs, Arty and AA though.

Here's a link if you want to see it.
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/612 ... C67235ED5/

I've also been toying around with the base M41, which is perfectly competent at its role and has a nice gun for the price but the autonomy is still bugging me and preventing it from replacing any of my other units which is a shame really as I like to try and use the more redundant units in national decks.
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Re: Danish Deck Pro/Con

Postby Kamrat Roger » Sun 28 Jul 2013 12:17

I have had good success by using vetted Leo 1 with vetted Vildkat APC and recon tanks on the offensive.

They are somewhat fast, great in terrain and able to defeat medium tanks and less armored units while at the same time is capable of handling soft targets and a few enemy choppers.

For heavy armor I like to use vetted Drakens to deal with them.

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