Conquest Mode and Map Design

M3SS3NG3R
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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby M3SS3NG3R » Fri 2 Aug 2013 21:02

Gronank wrote:
M3SS3NG3R wrote:If map design is up to me, ALL locations besides the starting reinforcement zones would have the same amount of income point. That's right, exactly the same. And they should all be kept very low, too. Like 1 or 2. The initial starting locations are the only ones with higher income (like maybe twice or three times as high as the regular zones).

Considered, rejected because it puts huge emphasis on CV sniping. Games would be won solely by a smerch barrage or nighthawk strike.
M3SS3NG3R wrote:In any case, deployment income should seriously be fixed on both sides.

Considered (and argued for), rejected because it would require changes too deep in the games engine.


Oh well, engine limitation is a bitch to deal with lol.

EDIT: wouldn't variable income encourage more sniping for CVs parked in high income locations? Though it certainly diverts attention from the starting zones indeed.

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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby naizarak » Fri 2 Aug 2013 21:13

Gronank wrote:Considered (and argued for), rejected because it would require changes too deep in the games engine.


Wait, so you're saying the reason we can't have equal income for both teams is because of an engine limitation? Maybe I didn't understand you, but that makes absolutely no sense.

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Gronank
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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby Gronank » Fri 2 Aug 2013 21:20

The engine is designed in such a way that income comes from controlled sectors. If you want income to come from some place else you need to change that design, something that couldn't be done with the resources allocated to this project.
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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby M3SS3NG3R » Fri 2 Aug 2013 21:27

Off the top of my head it seems to just involve commenting out the code that computes the income, and add the following line:

income = X;

But without actually seeing the code, I have no idea how complicated it really is. Same with the CV sniping thing actually. There are some fairly simple ways of going around it, but it needs a bit of thinking outside the box and some people probably won't like what it entails. In any case it's a shame the brass considers this too much trouble.

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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby naizarak » Fri 2 Aug 2013 21:42

Ok pardon my ignorance but why would it be so difficult. You don't need to change any deeply-rooted code. Just add an "income = x" line somewhere in the global space that supersedes all other code.

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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby Gronank » Fri 2 Aug 2013 21:45

I am not in a position to say, neither am I in a position to say how much work they should put into free dlc,
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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby Sukesa » Fri 2 Aug 2013 21:52

Want WEE conquest mode back ! :cry:

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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby saber2243 » Fri 2 Aug 2013 22:12

If income is that big of a deal just set the start zones to the full income for the team and have the center zones with no income PROBLEM SOLVED
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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby naizarak » Fri 2 Aug 2013 22:19

saber2243 wrote:If income is that big of a deal just set the start zones to the full income for the team and have the center zones with no income PROBLEM SOLVED


income points = victory points

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Re: Conquest Mode and Map Design

Postby M3SS3NG3R » Fri 2 Aug 2013 22:36

I think the underlying problems are

1. Currently the engine doesn't seem to allow one location to provide two types of income (ie: one for deployment one for victory).

2. As Gronank mentioned, putting heavy income in the starting zones while keeping all other zones with same low income will encourage CV sniping of the starting zones because all your eggs are in one basket so to speak.

Problem 1 can't really be fixed without possibly significant amount of code rewrite. Problem 2 can be fixed by simply doing this:

Create a CV unit that
1. cannot be moved, invisible (no model/texture), invulnerable, cannot be selected and has no collision box or any weapons
2. every player has exactly one of them only in conquest mode. It is forced to spawn automatically at the beginning of the match inside the starting zones similar to FOBs (maybe let the players swap their locations ONLY in deployment phase similar to FOBs as well)

So what this does is it makes the starting zones automatically controlled by the corresponding side without a need of an actual CV being parked inside. This has the advantage of:

1. essentially any map control can only be achieved using low income zones outside of the starting zones.
2. CV sniping on starting zones completely nullified (that includes all-in heli rush)
3. starting zones can still be contested by parking CVs inside opposing team's zones (thus denying them reinforcement and huge income) <-- if this happens to you you deserve to lose anyway
4. minimum code rewrite (only need to tweak engine code for the invisible CV to spawn in conquest basically)

In any case, touching up on engine code is most likely unavoidable with either solutions, which Eugen seems very reluctant to do.

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