helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

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Flieger
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helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Flieger » Tue 27 Aug 2013 15:36

What I am proposing now is making the Alpha Jet (NATO) and the Polish MiG 17 (Pact) helicopter hunter planes. Both aircraft are rather useless right now, but with a change in loadout and especially in range of the cannon(s) they could fill a niche. Just strip them of their load-out, and give their cannon(s) a higher range against helicopters.

The historical background is this: the German Luftwaffe equipped its Alpha Jets with a BK 27 cannon in order to hunt for Hinds. There have been regular exercises and tests of varying success. The concept was that a light, nimble and slow plane might be adequate to deal with the relatively fast and heavy Hinds, which were considered a major problem. There was also the plan to equip the Bo-105 with stinger missiles, but that would require new unit.
http://www.jabog49.de/_06%20Warstories/Hind-Killer.pdf

The article is rather gloomy in its assessment as it was written by an Alpha Jet-pilot. I heard very different stories from the CH-53 guys, but that is the nature of military competitive rivalry. 8-)

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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Gopblin » Tue 27 Aug 2013 16:13

... The Starfighter is already exceptionally good at killing Hinds, so why would you need another plane?

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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Ribar » Tue 27 Aug 2013 16:17

Believe me,F-104 Starfighter can take down hinds very effectively considering it has powerful vulcan gun and enough sidewinders,and on WP anti helicopter planes you have polish Lim-6M or E.German MiG-17F.
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Flieger » Tue 27 Aug 2013 16:21

Well, that is true, but that is only because the German Starfighter in-game is an abomination that bears little resemblance to the actual plane (wrong role, wrong load-out, wrong performance, wrong paint-job, wrong markings etc.).
I am still hoping for a load-out change reflecting its actual role past 1974: striker and bomber. Personally I'd prefer Napalm, but that is another discussion.

My W-German AF would be radically different (and historically accurate... ):
Alpha Jet - heli hunter
Starfighter - old/cheap fighter bomber, also Cat B/C fighter since there is no F-4F pre-ICE.
Tornado - modern/expansive fighter bomber with accurate load out
F-4F - fighter

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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby M3SS3NG3R » Tue 27 Aug 2013 16:41

IRL no fighter pilots in their right mind would try to engage helicopters, especially when jets fly at the laughable altitudes portrayed in game right now. It's pretty much suicide. If you want a better anti-helo mechanism in game I say buff ground-based anti-helo capability (especially manpads) instead of trying for anti-helo jet fighters that only exist in fantasy land.

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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Flieger » Tue 27 Aug 2013 16:50

M3SS3NG3R wrote:IRL no fighter pilots in their right mind would try to engage helicopters, especially when jets fly at the laughable altitudes portrayed in game right now. It's pretty much suicide. If you want a better anti-helo mechanism in game I say buff ground-based anti-helo capability (especially manpads) instead of trying for anti-helo jet fighters that only exist in fantasy land.


Again, this is IRL:
http://www.jabog49.de/_06%20Warstories/Hind-Killer.pdf
In the OP I already summarized the contend of the article (written by an Alpha Jet pilot and wing commander), in case you cannot read German.
Your remark about fantasy land is not only factually wrong but also very impolite.

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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Sonicbunny » Tue 27 Aug 2013 16:54

M3SS3NG3R wrote:IRL no fighter pilots in their right mind would try to engage helicopters, especially when jets fly at the laughable altitudes portrayed in game right now. It's pretty much suicide. If you want a better anti-helo mechanism in game I say buff ground-based anti-helo capability (especially manpads) instead of trying for anti-helo jet fighters that only exist in fantasy land.


Oh, wow. I'd just love to see the fanboys' reaction if Eugen gave helicopter cannons anti-fixed-wing capability...
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Ribar » Tue 27 Aug 2013 16:58

Flieger wrote:Well, that is true, but that is only because the German Starfighter in-game is an abomination that bears little resemblance to the actual plane (wrong role, wrong load-out, wrong performance, wrong paint-job, wrong markings etc.).
I am still hoping for a load-out change reflecting its actual role past 1974: striker and bomber. Personally I'd prefer Napalm, but that is another discussion.

My W-German AF would be radically different (and historically accurate... ):
Alpha Jet - heli hunter
Starfighter - old/cheap fighter bomber, also Cat B/C fighter since there is no F-4F pre-ICE.
Tornado - modern/expansive fighter bomber with accurate load out
F-4F - fighter


Ah,now I understand your point,you're military enthusiast who knows the actual role of units and doesn't like it when things could be more authentic by simple changes. :idea:
In that case you have a go,I support any change that leans toward most probable role of unit if it doesn't severely damage gameplay! :mrgreen:
I don't think that switching alpha jet and F-104G would be a bad change,but even more optimizing considering that alpha jet is slow enough to engage helicopter for longer period of time.Though I believe laser of death(vulcan cannon) is the only plane cannon that can severely damage helicopters if the missiles fail :? .
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby guynumber7 » Tue 27 Aug 2013 17:08

Even with the experiments, its unknown what actually would have happened with jets vs helis had war broken out. I feel as if it would have been back and forth and interesting. Most of the time i dont think the chopper would see the jet coming.
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Arch » Tue 27 Aug 2013 17:19

Everyone always cites "Radar masking by terrain" when talking about fixed wing vs rotary craft.

Guess what geniuses, helicopters would be reconnoited and then the planes would vis-ID them with the Mk.1 Eyeball.
Much like A-10's would never, ever go into a battle just to loiter around, they'd only be called in for CAS when they have definitive targets, then they would loiter and await more targets.

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