helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

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katt
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby katt » Thu 29 Aug 2013 03:58

Isn't ROF is just a measure of how many rounds are eaten up per burst, and since all guns fire the same amount of rounds per burst, Soviet guns have more ammo? Isn't this a buff?
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Mako
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Mako » Thu 29 Aug 2013 04:14

katt wrote:Isn't ROF is just a measure of how many rounds are eaten up per burst, and since all guns fire the same amount of rounds per burst, Soviet guns have more ammo? Isn't this a buff?


Not entirely sure what you are saying, but yes the ROF in the armory does not tell the true ROF of a weapon, or its "dice rolls" which are chances to do damage, influenced by accuracy, the amount of "sides" on a "die" that are damaging.
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby M3SS3NG3R » Thu 29 Aug 2013 04:33

katt wrote:Isn't ROF is just a measure of how many rounds are eaten up per burst, and since all guns fire the same amount of rounds per burst, Soviet guns have more ammo? Isn't this a buff?


This is not really on topic but what the heck. ROF/rate of fire tells you how many bullets come out of the gun in a fixed amount of time (ie: 1 minute). High ROF means the gun uses more bullets compared to a low ROF gun in the same period but as a result should deal higher damage per pass.

Soviet cannons mounted on aircrafts are jokes right now because their ROF has been dramatically lowered from their real life capabilities.

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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby Mako » Thu 29 Aug 2013 04:47

M3SS3NG3R wrote:
katt wrote:Isn't ROF is just a measure of how many rounds are eaten up per burst, and since all guns fire the same amount of rounds per burst, Soviet guns have more ammo? Isn't this a buff?


This is not really on topic but what the heck. ROF/rate of fire tells you how many bullets come out of the gun in a fixed amount of time (ie: 1 minute). High ROF means the gun uses more bullets compared to a low ROF gun in the same period but as a result should deal higher damage per pass.

Soviet cannons mounted on aircrafts are jokes right now because their ROF has been dramatically lowered from their real life capabilities.


I think he knows what it actually means, however in wargame that number is not indicative of the actual damage output of a weapon system, otherwise a 1 HE HMG firing at 600rpm with 5 ACC would kill a ten man squad 4 seconds at max range.

Edit: Forgot to factor in target Size, would take up to five and a fraction seconds.
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby katt » Thu 29 Aug 2013 04:49

M3SS3NG3R wrote:
katt wrote:Isn't ROF is just a measure of how many rounds are eaten up per burst, and since all guns fire the same amount of rounds per burst, Soviet guns have more ammo? Isn't this a buff?


This is not really on topic but what the heck. ROF/rate of fire tells you how many bullets come out of the gun in a fixed amount of time (ie: 1 minute). High ROF means the gun uses more bullets compared to a low ROF gun in the same period but as a result should deal higher damage per pass.

Soviet cannons mounted on aircrafts are jokes right now because their ROF has been dramatically lowered from their real life capabilities.


You're wrong.

The guns in game fire the same number of shells per burst, something like 5-6. ROF is just how many points of ammunition are used up per burst.

In this respect, Soviet guns would actually have a buff over NATO guns. They have more staying power. The cyclic ROF of guns in game is the same across the board. The only difference is how many rounds are consumed per burst, so NATO guns have a huge disadvantage if they have 3-4x the ammo consumption of Soviet guns, while retaining similar HE and accuracy stats.
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby M3SS3NG3R » Thu 29 Aug 2013 04:53

katt wrote:You're wrong.

The guns in game fire the same number of shells per burst, something like 5-6. ROF is just how many points of ammunition are used up per burst.

In this respect, Soviet guns would actually have a buff over NATO guns. They have more staying power. The cyclic ROF of guns in game is the same across the board. The only difference is how many rounds are consumed per burst, so NATO guns have a huge disadvantage if they have 3-4x the ammo consumption of Soviet guns, while retaining similar HE and accuracy stats.


What do you mean by it fires the same number of shells, and ROF dictates how many points of ammunition are used per burst? These two statements seem contradictory to each other. Not saying you are wrong cuz I don't know anything about how the game engine works in this instance, but that sounds like a very screwed up treatment of ROF.

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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby DoktorvonWer » Thu 29 Aug 2013 04:56

Guggy wrote:
Killertomato wrote:Lots of folks are talking about how OP the Vulcan is. Personally, I think all the other cannons, especially the MiG-17's 37mm, are UP. That thing should shred helicopters like a laser cutter through plate steel and it doesn't.


Agreed. I think Vulcan is ok in terms of ingame capability, but the Soviet guns are totally under performing.


Most non-rotary cannons are doing horribly, to be honest, if they're not mounted double or quadruple - and most double mountings still struggle.

The single-mounted cannons at 391 rounds/min are utterly abysmal, and their low RoF is nonsensical; though they're the same guns as the double mountings, they're represented as much less than 50% of the RoF of the same gun mounted double. These are guns which usually fire at 1200-2500 rounds/min in real life and get 391 in game, whilst the vulcan is 6000 in real life, but still retains 4000 of that.

Then, the double mountings themselves are about 25% of the speed of the vulcan, even though they're a dual fitting each of which has 25% of the RoF of vulcan/rotary cannons.


Most non-rotary cannons on aircraft need a RoF boost.
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby katt » Thu 29 Aug 2013 04:56

M3SS3NG3R wrote:
katt wrote:You're wrong.

The guns in game fire the same number of shells per burst, something like 5-6. ROF is just how many points of ammunition are used up per burst.

In this respect, Soviet guns would actually have a buff over NATO guns. They have more staying power. The cyclic ROF of guns in game is the same across the board. The only difference is how many rounds are consumed per burst, so NATO guns have a huge disadvantage if they have 3-4x the ammo consumption of Soviet guns, while retaining similar HE and accuracy stats.


What do you mean by it fires the same number of shells, and ROF dictates how many points of ammunition are used per burst? These two statements seem contradictory to each other. Not saying you are wrong cuz I don't know anything about how the game engine works in this instance, but that sounds like a very screwed up treatment of ROF.


viewtopic.php?f=91&t=26838&p=316687

Cyclic ROF is the same for every gun.

Sustained ROF is probably the same but I can't find the thread that explained it because I'm lazy.
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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby M3SS3NG3R » Thu 29 Aug 2013 05:05

Ah I get it now. That is intriguing. So the ROF stat has no bearing to the DPS of the weapon systems in game (at least when it comes to aircraft mounted cannons)? Wow.

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Re: helicopter-killer aircraft for Pact and NATO

Postby DoktorvonWer » Thu 29 Aug 2013 05:09

katt wrote:
Cyclic ROF is the same for every gun.

Sustained ROF is probably the same but I can't find the thread that explained it because I'm lazy.


Is it really, though? Actually?

Amazing how vulcans seem to utterly tear through helicopters in a split second whilst non-rotary cannons can struggle after 2 passes at times if that's the case.


In fact, I don't believe it - unless this means that dual-cannons have a doubly large burst, which would probably mean rotaries tend to have bigger bursts too. I know full well that the 'single' version of a cannon is far less effective, so they can't be putting the same amount of rounds in a burst.
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