BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

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Kraxis
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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby Kraxis » Thu 29 Aug 2013 15:31

Random wrote:BMP-3 everytime.
And I stopped using the BMPTs, don`t like them anymore, T-72/Norovs + Motostrelki & Spetsnaz do a better job.
The real tough choice is wheter you take 2x motostrelki in trucks and BTR or 3x motostrelkis high vet and with 1 card of IFV.

But BMPT remains relatively cheap in the VHC list, so what did you pick in it's stead?
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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby Arch » Thu 29 Aug 2013 17:16

I just LOVE seeing these people who are supposedly experts, claiming to use BTR-60PB's in their decks.

Hate to break it to you noobs, but those were removed some time ago due to imbalance. Stick with the times and don't give old advice.

EDIT: Disregard this, I suck. I mean the PAI, not the PB.

My mind skipped for a second and I thought that every BTR-60 was removed from the infantry tab, only the PAI was.
Last edited by Arch on Thu 29 Aug 2013 17:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby stratmania » Thu 29 Aug 2013 17:25

Arch wrote:I just LOVE seeing these people who are supposedly experts, claiming to use BTR-60PB's in their decks.

Hate to break it to you noobs, but those were removed some time ago due to imbalance. Stick with the times and don't give old advice.

Huh? The BTR-60PAI was removed. The PB model is still in, and frankly, a great APC that I will always use in my moto deck, but I am no expert.

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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby Max_Damage » Thu 29 Aug 2013 17:42

Armored deck is not optimal choice.
Other then that:

Need 40 motostrelki in cheap-ish transports. Those are usually btr60 and bmp1D. if you cant take btr (armored deck) you take bmp1 vanilla instead. Bmp1 for 15 pt should be used like that: you stick them around in the bushes and turn off the gun. they should be in groups of 3 to manage more numkbers more easily. Malyutkas will destroy similarly priced transports with 1 shot. I really run out of 40 cheap motostrelki in many games with towns.

Bmp3 will do nil to infantry in buildings. it however is taken for its long range fast missile and better autocannon solely.
i now have obr86.

Also why take t72? its like the worst tank possible. If you take t64 b or bm you really can feel how much better they are against cheaper units with low armor simply because 10/7 = 1.5 times the rof advantage.

I dont take hinds as helo slot. way too bad against tanks. i like taking mi28 better at least it kills tanks in a reasonable time.

Now to have a viable deck capable of doing everything you need 40 cheap motostrelki, 12 expensive, igla, konkurs and perhaps spetsnaz in mi24d. If you go armored your deck gets gimped because you wont have something of these:

-atgm in buildings;
-igla;
-40 cheap motostrelki. you ll run out of 20 motos really really quickly on maps with towns.

maybe bmp could be ditched altogether but 25 ap is too good in my view to ditch.
You can do anything but soviet deck loses to air assault in the beginning thats why its easier to play hato.


Btr60a needs to be back in the game, the 1/3 nerf to motostrelki "just because" was retarded.
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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby Arch » Thu 29 Aug 2013 17:57

stratmania wrote:
Arch wrote:I just LOVE seeing these people who are supposedly experts, claiming to use BTR-60PB's in their decks.

Hate to break it to you noobs, but those were removed some time ago due to imbalance. Stick with the times and don't give old advice.

Huh? The BTR-60PAI was removed. The PB model is still in, and frankly, a great APC that I will always use in my moto deck, but I am no expert.

Oh damn, you're right!

Even if I was not pointing at anyone in particular and got reminded of it from a post on the 1st page, sorry, guys.

The PAI is what I meant, not the PB. PB is still in, and costs 10 points, not 5 like the PAI did.

Oh and anyone who supports the PAI being included again is obviously one of the guys who can't live without an overpowered for its price transport, and now whines because they have to actually think about cheap transport choices.

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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby triumph » Thu 29 Aug 2013 18:05

wekwek_noob wrote:I am in a dilemma. I just made a USSR Armored Deck. The Tank Choices are T-72s. The Artillery is Rocket Arty. AA is armored AA that can shoot on move. Helos are your regular Hinds and Vehicles are the Norovs and BMPT.

The real core of this deck would be the mechanized infantry coming with it. What my plan for this deck is a fast assault getting started off by Uragans, followed by waves of T-72As with Mechanized Infantry supported by Armored AA and hard hitting flankers.

T72a, what? You should be maxing on the range game with tanks as much as you can. A card of T72, T64a or T72B1 is fine but beyond that and you're just hurting yourself. Play the heavy game. So much armor, so much HE power. You probably don't need norovs and could go with a flame tank or buratino (irrc its both mech and armored). You need one of three options since you're low on infantry slots. The first two options are obvious, motos in a btr and motos in trucks with a quantity of 20 for each. After that you have a choice of moto's +1D, igla, spetz, or konkurs. If you want to fully play into the range game then a single card of T62 with a missile will be fine since you have so many 1 activation cost slots.

if you want to use 1D's AND obr 86 or bmp3's and making great use of norovs then i suggest you look into playing USSR Mech or stick to a standard deck for the BTRs and use norovs.
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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby stratmania » Thu 29 Aug 2013 18:13

triumph wrote:
wekwek_noob wrote:I am in a dilemma. I just made a USSR Armored Deck. The Tank Choices are T-72s. The Artillery is Rocket Arty. AA is armored AA that can shoot on move. Helos are your regular Hinds and Vehicles are the Norovs and BMPT.

The real core of this deck would be the mechanized infantry coming with it. What my plan for this deck is a fast assault getting started off by Uragans, followed by waves of T-72As with Mechanized Infantry supported by Armored AA and hard hitting flankers.

T72a, what? You should be maxing on the range game with tanks as much as you can. A card of T72, T64a or T72B1 is fine but beyond that and you're just hurting yourself. Play the heavy game. So much armor, so much HE power. You probably don't need norovs and could go with a flame tank or buratino (irrc its both mech and armored). You need one of three options since you're low on infantry slots. The first two options are obvious, motos in a btr and motos in trucks with a quantity of 20 for each. After that you have a choice of moto's +1D, igla, spetz, or konkurs. If you want to fully play into the range game then a single card of T62 with a missile will be fine since you have so many 1 activation cost slots.

if you want to use 1D's AND obr 86 or bmp3's and making great use of norovs then i suggest you look into playing USSR Mech or stick to a standard deck for the BTRs and use norovs.

I rarely play armored decks, but when making one, I try to capitalise on the tanks and vehicles to free up other slots. Play the heavy game. Get the U, the bv1, etc etc.

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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby Morganan » Thu 29 Aug 2013 18:18

wekwek_noob wrote:I am in a dilemma. I just made a USSR Armored Deck. The Tank Choices are T-72s. The Artillery is Rocket Arty. AA is armored AA that can shoot on move. Helos are your regular Hinds and Vehicles are the Norovs and BMPT.

The real core of this deck would be the mechanized infantry coming with it. What my plan for this deck is a fast assault getting started off by Uragans, followed by waves of T-72As with Mechanized Infantry supported by Armored AA and hard hitting flankers.


Use both in your deck. Use the BMP-2 Obr 1986's for supporting your tanks in the open or forested areas and use the bmp-3's for supporting urban assaults

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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby rrev » Thu 29 Aug 2013 18:21

Infantry choices depends allot on the map&format you're going to play.
A city map justify taking lots of moto's /morskaya in cheap vehicles for instance, otherwise not really.
A large open map warrants IFV's with good ATGM's.
A complex map warrants taking a little bit of both.

Speaking of the BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986, it really depends on your play style and what you have in your other categories. Obrs 1986 is a more of TD than an IFV (it's auto cannon is pretty mediocre while the Konkurs-M devastates heavy tanks) and should as such play as a dedicated anti-(heavy) tank destroyer.
BMP3 can do the same but allot worse (killing heavies that is) but can on the hand support infantry MUCH better, both in forests and in the open. It's a sort of lovechild of Schturm (which it outclass) and the BMPT (which outdone it in the anti-infantry role and survivability, but that can't even engage medium tanks...).

If you want to skip BMPT (perfectly viable to do that), then BMP3+BMP1D+T72 (35p) etc etc can fill the void nicely.
Assuming these are units you'd take anyway, you're up +1 card for taking off the BMPT. Problems arises in larger towns or heavy forest areas where BMPT's massive 15 armor is VERY helpful while dislodging pesky infantry. Other than that, it really isn't much of a loss. The BMPT is a specialist vehicle whose counter (infantry) can hardly be said "formidable" in most situations (other than forests, buildings, towns) so taking units that can do other stuff other than fighting infantry and synergizes together is better in most cases. The BMPT is an overkill in too many maps...infantry really isn't that good in this game (unfortunately).

If you want the Obr 1986, then you should definitely have the BMPT (and the other usuals) ofc, as you don't want to use that too much against infantry.
In an armored deck, neither of these vehicles are critical for success IMO (armored deck is only worth it in open maps to begin with) but I favor the Obr 1986 in those decks.

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Re: BMP-3 vs BMP-2 Obr 1986

Postby Mikeboy » Thu 29 Aug 2013 18:55

I put my low availability high veterancy shock troops in BMP-3s, and my mass troops in BMP-1P.

Max_Damage wrote:Btr60a needs to be back in the game, the 1/3 nerf to motostrelki "just because" was retarded.

That you still claim that despite your sig is amusing.

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