Rate My deck

admiral9
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Re: Rate My deck

Postby admiral9 » Fri 18 Oct 2013 23:12

ericdude88 wrote:This is a terrible deck. You don't need that many tanks lol, spamming tanks in this game doesn't work as one bomb strike or helo spam will annihlate them all in seconds...

Definitely get some Motostrelki in cheap BTR, replace the weak fakturiya with PTUR konkurs (since you're soviet) and get some SU-25T for ground attack, Yak-38 for napalm! MiG-31M IMO isn't worth it, just one isn't gonna do squat. Replace that with a card of MiG-23P for air superiority. Also get some BM-21 and NONA SVK in Support for uber arty power, and delete one command; you don't need 2 BMP commands (Personally the 100 pt UAZ command is most economical). Oh yea and you should get at least one heli card, I prefer MI-24V.


Friend learn your types, BTR isn't available in armor, yak 38 isn't available in armored, nona SVK isn't available in armored.

But ok about the deck:

Hmm you don't need 2 tunguskas, actually you could just take the biryusa and the tunguska M and get a pretty solid anti helo net up.
For anti planes 4 bukm1 is enough, you can use those 2 cards to get either 2 mstas or 1 urugan and one malka. (personal preference here)
You could remove one card of mi9's and one card of the BRDM2 and take spetznaz vmf for recon.
The remaining points you got from that you can invest in another card of supply.
Also replace the brm1k for a t80uk for the frontline fights.

Now tanks..... Friend theres allot of tweaking your armor needs, if I would say myself I would say that you should remove the t62m1 and the t72b, You could also remove the t80BV.
now you replace the t64bv for the t64bv1 as you want the gun, you got the t64bm for the atgm jobs.

The points you got from this you can use to add one card of helos now considering you are new for ease I would say mi24v or if you got the micro maybe the mi28?

And the rest of your points go into planes, I would personally suggest atleast the su24mp and the su25 for the 2 general jobs.
Then maybe replace the mig31m with either the mig29m for the F&F or the su27s.

I hope this helped :)


EDIT: Whoops forgot inf
Hmm i would say replace the faktoriya with konkurs and take 1 card of motors in BMP1D in place of the IGLA and 1 card of motors in BMP3 in exchange for the spetz.
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ericdude88
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Re: Rate My deck

Postby ericdude88 » Sat 19 Oct 2013 09:10

That was my point, for him to ditch the armored.

All specializations are nothing more than handicaps at the moment, which is unfortunate.

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Re: Rate My deck

Postby admiral9 » Sat 19 Oct 2013 09:31

ericdude88 wrote:That was my point, for him to ditch the armored.

All specializations are nothing more than handicaps at the moment, which is unfortunate.


Armored can be handy in 4v4's.
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Mako
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Re: Rate My deck

Postby Mako » Sat 19 Oct 2013 09:46

admiral9 wrote:
ericdude88 wrote:That was my point, for him to ditch the armored.

All specializations are nothing more than handicaps at the moment, which is unfortunate.


Armored can be handy in 4v4's.


Perhaps, but the majority of the time it is a bad idea to choose such a spec.

Why they don't just increase availability for units in typed decks, I don't know.

It's kind of silly currently.
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

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Re: Rate My deck

Postby admiral9 » Sat 19 Oct 2013 10:22

Mako wrote:
admiral9 wrote:
ericdude88 wrote:That was my point, for him to ditch the armored.

All specializations are nothing more than handicaps at the moment, which is unfortunate.


Armored can be handy in 4v4's.


Perhaps, but the majority of the time it is a bad idea to choose such a spec.

Why they don't just increase availability for units in typed decks, I don't know.

It's kind of silly currently.


Of course I'm just trying to be reasonable.
Still I don't think that his deck was meant for hardcore competitive play and if he is gonna play with a friend then honestly armored can work pretty well.
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QuakeRiley
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Re: Rate My deck

Postby QuakeRiley » Sat 19 Oct 2013 11:21

ComradePuma wrote:A guy told me I need someone to help me build a new deck. He said my deck sucked, because it had no infantry or ground recon. I changed a few things and now it looks like this: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =186945180

Any tips, any suggestions?

The bonuses are soviet, armored.

Thanks for reading.


I can't, I just can't. Why do you need that many tanks? Why? Why get the top end T-64s, T-72s and T-80s? I can understand the T-62s (cheap and fair for the price) but why get *all* the top end tanks? T-80U, okay, that is alright but don't get that many high end tanks. You have four tanks all around the same pricetag, don't do it.

Cut the tanks amount in half, get some helos, get some jets and get some more trucks. Oh, get Motors (drop one of the three infantry(You need linesmen and Spetz can't be linesmen)) and you don't need Iglas in BMPs.
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EricTerminator
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Re: Rate My deck

Postby EricTerminator » Mon 21 Oct 2013 05:41

This deck is terrible. Its major flaws are :

- way too many tanks, especially the costly stuff
- not enough infantry
- not enough supplies
- way too costly AA
- lack of arty/mortars
- no recon infantry
- no helo support
- not enough planes

Basically, what will happen in any game is that someone will use some SEAD aircraft paired with ATGM ones, and all your costly stuff will turn to ashes. Here's for example a much more balanced USSR Armored Cat A deck : http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/828 ... 6E021450A/

Let's analyze why my deck is quite decent compared to your, category by category.

Logistics : Unless you're throwing CVs away, 3 is pretty much enough for a lot of games in 3vs3 or more. With 37500 liters of supplies, I can feed my units who are gonna throw a lot of missiles at the enemy, while your deck will quickly run out of ammo. Note the BRM-1K is a very good choice for a CV, but you have to employ it correctly ; don't park it in the middle of a forest, but in some dense hedgerows or at the border of a dense forest. Like this, you'll be able to scout a huge area and know no special forces squad is coming through the woods to kill your precious CV. Of course, don't do that near the frontlines.

Infantry : With Armored decks, the basic rule is to get the polyvalent or extremely crucial stuff, and to have enough numbers. If you can't have enough line infantry, just ditch ATGM infantry ; same thing with Spetznaz. With my deck, I have at least 32 hardened Motostrelki and 8 hardened PZRK Igla. The problem with a USSR Armored cat A deck is that you don't have a lot of choices for your infantry ; it's either Ural trucks that will blow up with a single autocannon round, or burn nearly instantly in napalm, or BMPs. Choppers are a bad choice as they'll be magnets for IR missiles and aren't really practical for deploying lots of infantry. Because you ought to have read about GREAT DESIGN OF BMP VEHICLE, you'll know that IN GAME OF WAR YOU BUY MANY MANY BMP OF DESIGN 2. GREAT DESIGN OF BMP 2 combines an AUTOCANNON to shred APCs that have a single point of armor with Konkurs ATGM to hunt enemy tanks. For a mere 5 extra points, which is not much compared to 40 points for Motostrelki in BMP-2, you can get the BMP-2D, which is a tough nut to crack for an IFV. To add some flexibility, choose the GREAT DESIGN OF BMP-2 OBR 1986 for your other card of Motostrelki for insane ATGM, autocannon and extra speed.
For the Igla, you may choose the Ural truck as they're not supposed to be at the frontlines, or choose some BMP variant to complement your needs ; that's what I did with the BMP-1D for an armored grenade launcher to clear infantry more easily.

Support : If you forget to turn off some radars, the enemy will reap 65 points minimum per hit with a SEAD aircraft, hence you need some meatshield radar units to attract the first shot (SEAD aircraft engage the first radar unit they detect, and for the next missiles, the costliest unit in their range.), or units that don't need a radar to work. Or if you don't constantly move your SAMs, you can be pretty sure some player with a forward recon unit will be happy to use tube arty to shell your SAMs into smithereens. At the same time, your lack of arty/mortars prevents you from sniping enemy positions or laying smokescreens to advance. In my deck, the 9K33 Osa and ZSU-23-4MZ Biryusa are put forward to work as SEAD meatshields ; for a cheaper meatshield, you may opt for the ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka, but if you play in Conquest, the extra 10 points isn't too much a hindrance, especially when you know the Biryusa has the same availability as the Shilka, with extra range and accuracy. Basically, these 2 meatshields I propose offer very good lethality for the price, and you need an autocannon unit to save some cost on supplies, provide some flexibility against ground troops, stun enemy aircraft or finish off that airplane going away with 1-2 HP. The 2K22M Tunguska is picked for the fact it can't be targeted by SEAD aircraft with the autocannons turned off, has insane accuracy and can outrange enemy choppers. The 9K37 Buk-M1 is there to provide the long range punch ; of course, because of their cost, you need to micro them to turn on/off the radar when needed ; the Osa-AKM may be an alternative choice, trading range for availability, cost, and rate of fire. Finally, the 2S7M Malka, while a bad smokelayer, is an extremely good long range sniper to destroy any high-value fragile targets your recon units may detect.

Tanks : If you didn't realize it, you have 5 cards of tanks above 100 points, which is way too costly. You have 5770 POINTS WORTH OF TANKS. To put things in perspective, in a Conquest 4vs4 game, you gain something between 1.75 and 2 points per second for your income, that means you'd need BETWEEN 48 AND 55 MINUTES TO DEPLOY EVERY TANK. In a Destruction game, this is simply impossible as all those heavy tanks can pretty much be free points for the enemy if you lack of something to cover them, such as infantry, a huge air defense net, aircraft, artillery, all the stuff you lack. My deck on the other hand is way more balanced, with the T-55AM2 and the T-62M providing ATGM support and being sufficiently cheap to be deployed to fill some gaps. The T-64BM would be the mainstay of the tank force, as it's a very cost-effective defensive tank, while not being too bad in the offense. The T-80U, A and BV are...well to crush the enemy once you amass enough points. Note it may not be necessary to have that many tanks, so you can trade the T-80BV for some recon unit for example.

Recon : If there's one recon unit you MUST have at all costs, it's the one you didn't pick : recon infantry. Recon infantry is extremely hard to detect, always has very good optics and can be used to assassinate enemy CVs or other high value stuff deep behind enemy lines. With USSR, these choices are limited to the Razvedka and the Spetznaz VMF ; the latter is not a realistic choice for being deployed in choppers, as it must come with the awfully costly Ka-29. That's why it's the Razvedka that gets into the choppa. Spetznaz VMF in Ural trucks are cheap enough to be deployed to the frontlines, and their insane speed and SVD sniper rifle can help them create and exploit gaps to infiltrate the enemy lines. As noted before, it may be good to deploy another recon unit, such as a BRM or Mi-9 to assist pushing if you didn't succeed in placing recon infantry beforehand.

Vehicles : The BMPT is a solid choice for town clearing, but they don't really need extra veterancy, as they're already accurate enough, so get 8 of them. In my deck, the ZSU-23-4 Afghanskii provides some cheap combat support. Because it only costs 20 points and has an autocannon without the KE trait, it is likely some costlier unit will attract fire while it will to its job of firing at the enemy to panick or stun, even if it's an extremely armored Chimera.

Helicopters : Your lack of choppers is disturbing. Adaptability is key in this game, and if the enemy runs out of AA, a chopper will cleanse an area by itself ! In my case, I picked the Mi-24V because it offers a good availability and has 8 STRONK Kokon missiles to outrange a lot of stuff.

Planes : 1 MiG-31M for planes is not enough. All it takes is a slight mistake, and your single MiG-31M will die to a pair of F-14s, or be bounced by multiple fighters, or even approach too closely from an I-Hawk sometimes. In my deck, the MiG-25BM provides a basic capacity for SEAD, I have 2 MiG-31 that are better than a single MiG-31M, the pair of MiG-29Ms, while costly, provide a good supplementing option for BVR fights and can drop cluster bombs on an exposed enemy, while the pair of MiG-27Ms take care of the heaviest tanks.
Last edited by EricTerminator on Tue 22 Oct 2013 08:27, edited 1 time in total.
BECAUSE HUNTING CHALLENGERS WITH MIG-31S WAS TOO EASY :


VikingHaag
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Re: Rate My deck

Postby VikingHaag » Mon 21 Oct 2013 09:59

First off, remove all the tanks.

Then put in these.

4 Veteran T-80U's, your "screw you" card to enemy armor.

8 Hardened T-64BM's, your medium tank, the BV merely gains 1 armor on each side but the top, 3 extra AP and 2 extra accuracy for 40 points more, not worth it

24 Hardened T-55AM2's, your "cheap" tank of choice comes with a very good atgm capable of putting a dent in high end NATO tanks at max range.

20 Hardened T-62's are your reserve tanks, call them in when you're losing but don't feel like giving up yet.

For support

Remove the 2 non prototype tunguskas and the non prototype buk.

Replace them with a Nona, a Byrusa and an OSA AKM.

The Nona is for the obvious target of opportunity sniping.

The Byrusa brutalizes whatever passes overhead and obliterates careless helicopters.

The OSA AKM has something the buks lack, massive Rate of fire, more often than not putting 3 missiles in the air while the buks shoot 1, the shorter range too makes them good SEAD bait at 30 points a pop.

For infantry 2 cards of Motorstrelki, 1 in BMP-1P's and 1 in BMP-1D's, the D's are for clearing woods, the P's are now your Konkurs squads, hide them in the woods and snipe some tanks when the opportunity rises.

1 Card of 6 Spetnaz in MI-24P's, because why not, excellent infantry combined with excellent choppers make for a deadly combo, spot with one, snipe with the other.

For recon 2 squads of Razvedka, one in BMP-1P's, again, cheap atgm platform, this time carrying recon, can be used as a hunter-killer team, the other in MI-8T's, this time because spetnaz only come in Ural trucks in the recon section with this deck.

The BRM and MI-9 stay right there.

For Vehicles, 1 card each of BMPT, your woods dominator, Norov's, another cheap gun option, very accurate but fragile, and TO-62's, for when someone decided 32 infantry units should hold a big town.

Helos are light, just one card of 2 veteran MI-28's because they're big targets and you'll rarely need more than 2 if you're doing things right.

Planes are 1 card each of SU-27's, 1 of SU-24's (SEAD version) and 1 of SU-25T (1 veteran is better than 2 rooks).

1 Card of BMP-1 CV's and 3 Ural cards of your choice will be your logistics.

I didn't test it, but to me it sounds quite a nice deck now.

Feel free to play around with the veterancy of stuff and infantry transports.

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Re: Rate My deck

Postby EricTerminator » Mon 21 Oct 2013 16:07

Just a few comments about the suggestions above :


The OSA AKM has something the buks lack, massive Rate of fire, more often than not putting 3 missiles in the air while the buks shoot 1, the shorter range too makes them good SEAD bait at 30 points a pop.



Actually, the OSA-AKM costs 40 points.


For infantry 2 cards of Motorstrelki, 1 in BMP-1P's and 1 in BMP-1D's, the D's are for clearing woods, the P's are now your Konkurs squads, hide them in the woods and snipe some tanks when the opportunity rises.



Why the BMP-1P ? It is against what GENERAL YURI said. IN GAME OF WAR YOU BUY MANY MANY BMP OF DESIGN 2. Between the BMP-1P and the BMP-2, it's a small difference of 5 points (on a system cost of 35-40 points) for trading a mediocre HEAT gun for a decent autocannon and an extra point of side armor (it won't get instagibbed by most tank rounds to the side), and I'd recommend going for an extra 5 points to get a further +1 armor for the front and side with the BMP-2D. The BMP-2 obr 1986 is also a must-have ; its 25 AP ATGM hurts heavies and instagibs medium and light tanks, because its AP is 14 points or more above their front armor : viewtopic.php?p=317067#p317067


1 Card of 6 Spetnaz in MI-24P's, because why not, excellent infantry combined with excellent choppers make for a deadly combo, spot with one, snipe with the other.



That's a very risky combo, because you're putting 105 points in a relatively fragile unit, that hardly fits the most common uses for Spetznaz squads. For the initial land grab, your choppers, especially with USSR Armored Cat A, can only rely on your air superiority planes to provide air cover, as your choppers will typically overextend their SAM bubble, leaving them exposed to cheap fighters such as the Norwegian F-5A, Swedish J 35D or J 35F Draken, Canadian CF-116 or even cluster bombers. If it's after the initial land grab, it isn't that interesting to deploy Spetznaz with choppers, especially when you know that the Mi-24P isn't a model of cost-efficiency. For one card of Spetznaz, you get 6 veteran or 4 elite Mi-24P, which cost 75 points a pop and only carry 4 Kokon ATGMs. In the HELO sections, you can get 6 trained Mi-24V at 85 points a unit, which carry 8 Kokons, so unless you need extreme accuracy, you'll notice that 4 accurate Kokons are generally worse than 8 less accurate ones. Also note it'd typically need about 1 kill on a high-end medium or low-end heavy tank to get a hardened Mi-24V, which is barely less accurate than a veteran Mi-24P ; the only real advantage of the Mi-24P would be to get elite ones, but that would limit you to 4 Spetznaz and Mi-24P, which is probably too little. It's also much easier to be able to deploy 2 moderate-cost units (Spetznaz in Ural trucks or Mi-8T(V) and Mi-24V) than deploy 1 costly unit, as it offers the best cost-efficiency and flexibility to each situation you'd encounter. For example, let's say you're facing an armored push ; what's the point of having a Spetznaz squad for each ATGM helo you'd call in ?


Helos are light, just one card of 2 veteran MI-28's because they're big targets and you'll rarely need more than 2 if you're doing things right.

Planes are 1 card each of SU-27's, 1 of SU-24's (SEAD version) and 1 of SU-25T (1 veteran is better than 2 rooks).



Helo and plane availabilities are too low, leaving you extremely exposed to a single casualty, not to mention they're all quite costly...
BECAUSE HUNTING CHALLENGERS WITH MIG-31S WAS TOO EASY :


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Re: Rate My deck

Postby VikingHaag » Mon 21 Oct 2013 18:20

EricTerminator wrote:SNIP


So you just nitpick the weak (or mistaken price) and say nothing about the good changes?
Thanks.

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