Result of the supply cut

Oktoberfest
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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby Oktoberfest » Thu 28 Nov 2013 15:48

I really really like these changes ! I think it does not hinder movement at all, and I personnaly experienced the contrary. Defences that were supplied with 5 trucks next to them cannot hold as long anymore. You don't get 2 Konkurses stopping the assault of 15 tanks because they get endless supplies and the enemy player don't have to take any care of them while he is playing on another flank, because airstrikes are prohibited by Osas and Buk supplied each by the same amount of trucks. This is so precious !! Movement can apply, defence relies more on cheaper units and ambushes than masses of ATGM and buks. For that I thank Eugen heavily !

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K98-Schütze[GER]
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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby K98-Schütze[GER] » Thu 28 Nov 2013 15:57

Oktoberfest wrote:I really really like these changes ! I think it does not hinder movement at all, and I personnaly experienced the contrary. Defences that were supplied with 5 trucks next to them cannot hold as long anymore. You don't get 2 Konkurses stopping the assault of 15 tanks because they get endless supplies and the enemy player don't have to take any care of them while he is playing on another flank, because airstrikes are prohibited by Osas and Buk supplied each by the same amount of trucks. This is so precious !! Movement can apply, defence relies more on cheaper units and ambushes than masses of ATGM and buks. For that I thank Eugen heavily !


This is also not an argument.
If you could not defeat a good fortified and supplied position like a town, than after patch you have also problems.
Cause supply issues are for everyone how I heared.
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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby Oktoberfest » Thu 28 Nov 2013 16:09

K98-Schütze[GER] wrote:
This is also not an argument.
If you could not defeat a good fortified and supplied position like a town, than after patch you have also problems.
Cause supply issues are for everyone how I heared.


Yes, and no. What I have seen before was one guy puting a lot of ATGM, one recon squad and a few AA in a town and then forget about it for ages, while concentrating on another area of the map because he knew his troops were supplied by 15 + logistic trucks. Which means that he could defeat any attack as he could supply his troops in the city while firing (thing that you cannot do while attacking).

Now, a defender cannot endlessly supply his defences because he cannot do it anymore, his limited trucks tied to other duties. So, as soon as the ATGM are all fired, your attack force can actually progress towards the city and engage the enemy. That's the big difference !

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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby QuakeRiley » Thu 28 Nov 2013 16:23

Oktoberfest wrote:Now, a defender cannot endlessly supply his defences because he cannot do it anymore, his limited trucks tied to other duties. So, as soon as the ATGM are all fired, your attack force can actually progress towards the city and engage the enemy. That's the big difference !


Actually they still can if they spend like, a minute at most pre-game to work out how to set up a competent supply line.
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K98-Schütze[GER]
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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby K98-Schütze[GER] » Thu 28 Nov 2013 17:11

Oktoberfest wrote:
K98-Schütze[GER] wrote:
This is also not an argument.
If you could not defeat a good fortified and supplied position like a town, than after patch you have also problems.
Cause supply issues are for everyone how I heared.


Yes, and no. What I have seen before was one guy puting a lot of ATGM, one recon squad and a few AA in a town and then forget about it for ages, while concentrating on another area of the map because he knew his troops were supplied by 15 + logistic trucks. Which means that he could defeat any attack as he could supply his troops in the city while firing (thing that you cannot do while attacking).

Now, a defender cannot endlessly supply his defences because he cannot do it anymore, his limited trucks tied to other duties. So, as soon as the ATGM are all fired, your attack force can actually progress towards the city and engage the enemy. That's the big difference !



When you know there are 15 or more supply trucks ( = about 300 points, propably more), why you didnt mortared it, throw Napalm over it, than smoke by mortars and attack?
This would be a better micro for the game, as just send supply trucks back and in front, back and in front.....thats the gameplay difference for now ;)
I never experienced, that somebody "forget" his units. This signal at minimap reminds normally.
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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby praslovan » Thu 28 Nov 2013 17:17

Increased penalty to manoeuvring tactics...

Nope. You can do it just as before. But this time it comes at a cost. Want to be highly manoeuvrable? Np. But then you won't be able to have 4 kinds of tanks, 6 kinds of support vehicles and mountain of inf.

Simple as that.

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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby Custer85 » Thu 28 Nov 2013 17:40

1. Supplyvehicle sniping is encouraged

2. Manouvering is costly, since you have to bring supply trucks or helicopters that will be missed in the supply line and because you are risking to loose them

3. Heavy artillery and supplies have allways been something people needed to balance in their decks, now the supplies consume more command points and the best way to save those points is to get rid of the heavy artillery and stick with the limited ammount of supplies you have right now. But instead you can now buy more jets/bombers.

4. removing foreward supply routes is another burden to every player that wants to attack a certain position. Since vehicles have to be called in from behind, they have consumed a considerable ammount of fuel before even starting the attack. Refuling on the frontline before attacking has become a necessity. This also causes all kinds of problems when you have successfully taken a foreward position. The time until supplies and reinforcements arrive has increasd, so going on with the attack will have to wait.

result: Attacks take much longer to prepare and are riskier, since you never know wether you can hold the position until reinforcements roll in or the empty supply trucks are replaced with full trucks. The changes to Lillehammer for instance has eleminated the need to attack completely. Due to additional sectors and the removal of those foreward supply routes, the points difference and the tactical advantage you get from those sectors is not important, so attacking them is not necessary.

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Uncle_Joe
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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby Uncle_Joe » Thu 28 Nov 2013 18:02

At the same time, due to the removal of the 'interior spawns' on many maps, it's a bit harder for the defender to just spam out units to contain an advance. If you mass up and attack in an area where the defender isn't prepared, you'll be able to overwhelm them before they can bring up reinforcements...kinda like in reality. ;)

Now once people get used to this new dynamic they might actually start to maintain a mobile RESERVE! Again, a real concept used for centuries. And of course the attacker will follow similar lines and feint to draw in the reserve etc etc.

So while the attacker may have to prepare more post-patch, on many maps the defender's job is tougher now too.

About the only thing that MIGHT need a tweak IMO would be the cost of supplies for the AA missiles. Those are just 'invented' numbers anyways so I'm pretty sure they can be safely tweaked down 25% or so if need be. That way less supply trucks could be used to still keep the AA missile stocked up.
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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby Liare » Thu 28 Nov 2013 18:30

molnibalage wrote:
Therefore, Eugen's measure had the result of grounding artillery to FOBs, without giving options for players

to make use of their mobility.


I have to say you are wrong... Have you ever tried supply helos? Much faster than trucks and can fly very quickly even on 10 vs 10 map to FOBs of other players.
perhaps you should try a national deck at some point.

12 trucks and 1-2 FOB's means a single recon squad can pretty much cripple a Danish player if you manage to sneak it around back, and taking 12 trucks is not optional, each Hawk needs at minimum, one sitting nearby to reload it, for reasonable AA coverage you need 2-3 of these, prefrably each with a truck in tow so it can acturally fire more than a single bomber pass, or you could just bring more hawks and treat them as expendable... not that many to work with, but eh, whatever!

well unless you want to play without SAM support, and that's just crazy talk.

sweden is better off, getting 16 trucks, and norway gets 24, that means they are at least assets you can comfortably risk if it's worthwhile, oh and do point out the supply chopper for me, i cant seem to find it? (and then there's east germany, 8 trucks 4 choppers, nope not going anywhere within 3km of the front line with those)

my point is, did the minors really need another reason not to use them ? where they not weak enough already ?

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Re: Result of the supply cut

Postby EricTerminator » Thu 28 Nov 2013 18:37

Uncle_Joe wrote:Now once people get used to this new dynamic they might actually start to maintain a mobile RESERVE! Again, a real concept used for centuries. And of course the attacker will follow similar lines and feint to draw in the reserve etc etc.


Actually, there's already a mobile reserve ; just not the one you wanted : choppers and planes...

And these are the least affected by the supply trucks nerf and middle reinforcement points removal ; the former can deploy from the nearest reinforcement point quickly enough while flying in a straight line and generally has more autonomy than ground vehicles. At the same time, they resupply just like they did before ; they retreat far enough to not be seen so they can get resupplied.

The second...oh well, nothing changed for them at all.
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