Frustrated by lack of flares and the extremely high effectiveness of panicked MANPADs

mihai22
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Frustrated by lack of flares and the extremely high effectiveness of panicked MANPADs

Postby mihai22 » Fri 29 Apr 2016 12:34

One Strela superman shot down 3 helicopters after bailing out of his wrecked BTR. Being panicked and with 21% chance to hit, he scored 3 hits in a row. And he was invisible in a field (no terrain that counts as cover in this game) until he opened fire, despite "very good" ground recon having LOS on him at 975m and a "very good" recon heli having LOS on him at around 2km. His transport and his buddy died to a combination of ATGM and cannon, plus aircraft bombs and arty. Not sure exactly what got them since I always setup kill zone that I pound with everything (that's the only way to survive/win against the current "medium" AI which spam rushes while massively cheating on deployment points). Usually ATGM hits on BTRs kill whatever is inside too, but it's not 100%.

And not only this panicked Strela superman wrecked half the heli force, forcing me to pull back the rest, but his panicked Faktoriya buddy from another half-strength team took out the ground recon (again in one shot of course), which he spotted in the effing woods despite being panicked and before the recon could open up on him.

This "wargame" fails to implement one of the most basic countermeasures that make attack helicopters usable IRL: IR flares. I didn't get to check the CTH of the Faktoriya dude, but in EE at least the panicked guys had low CTH of 5%. I seems much higher in ALB, which is a bad thing.

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molnibalage
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Re: Frustrated by lack of flares and the extremely high effectiveness of panicked MANPADs

Postby molnibalage » Fri 29 Apr 2016 17:10

This "wargame" fails to implement one of the most basic countermeasures that make attack helicopters usable IRL: IR flares. I didn't get to check the CTH of the Faktoriya dude, but in EE at least the panicked guys had low CTH of 5%. I seems much higher in ALB, which is a bad thing

No kidding...
This have been commened many times in the last 3 yeras...
BTW if you helos were killed by a single MANPAD guy and with panicked state was able to reload and aim 3 time you do it someting wrong, especially in ALB where recon is stronger comparing to RD where even recon units are literally blind...

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KattiValk
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Re: Frustrated by lack of flares and the extremely high effectiveness of panicked MANPADs

Postby KattiValk » Fri 29 Apr 2016 19:34

ECM values are flat CTH modifiers so any ECM means weapons that wouldn't normally be affected by flares, jammers, or chaff would suffer because of it. Planes get away with having ECM, but helicopters that are impossible to hit with small arms would be pretty silly.

mihai22
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Re: Frustrated by lack of flares and the extremely high effectiveness of panicked MANPADs

Postby mihai22 » Fri 29 Apr 2016 23:21

molnibalage wrote:
This "wargame" fails to implement one of the most basic countermeasures that make attack helicopters usable IRL: IR flares. I didn't get to check the CTH of the Faktoriya dude, but in EE at least the panicked guys had low CTH of 5%. I seems much higher in ALB, which is a bad thing

No kidding...
This have been commened many times in the last 3 yeras...
BTW if you helos were killed by a single MANPAD guy and with panicked state was able to reload and aim 3 time you do it someting wrong, especially in ALB where recon is stronger comparing to RD where even recon units are literally blind...


What did I do wrong exactly? There were 4 arty tubes and 2 mortars unloading on him, he was just superman and didn't wanna die. The thing that is wrong is the ridiculously short reload times for MANPADS, at the very least. Never mind the dubious 3/3 hits he pulled off in the panicked state. An no, the two "very good" recons didn't see him until he fired. One was at 975m like I said. I guess Eugen must have implemented the suggestion that stunned infantry (which has the prone animation) is nearly invisible, even in a field.

And speaking of blind recon, the "good" recon in ALB still can't see infantry in buildings outside the RPG range, ever frigging motostrelkis. Anyway, after another similar experience with infantry, I'm pretty sure there's some rule (intentional or bug) that makes stunned/routed infantry nearly invisible. Here's what happened: two groups of 20 fusiliers (2 squads in each, i.e. 2x10, FWIW) advance on some building, which is defended by 30 motostrelkis. With tank support and arty support they kill two of the three enemy squads. But given the overlapping "+10" icons and the fact that the building sector became unoccupied, I didn't notice that 4 motostrelkis in the 3rd squad survived... until my guys were already in their building for some time! I had taken the building sector for some 30-seconds, and I was wondering why the adjacent FOB doesn't get captured since the enemy had no other possible hiding places nearby, when one half-strength motostrelki squad magically [re]appeared in between the two fusilier squads that were occupying the building, at "50m" from the closest one [in the silly, inflated way that distances get portrayed in this game]. I guess the motostrelkis were either stunned or had routed out of the building and then tried to move back in. But I had recon virtually surrounding the building on all sides. There was a recon heli about 1k from the building that had eyes on the sides that fusiliers couldn't see while approaching. Also there was a Fox backing them up on fusiliers side, about 1.2k away. None of these assets saw the motostrelkis until they magically respawned in the building.

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molnibalage
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Re: Frustrated by lack of flares and the extremely high effectiveness of panicked MANPADs

Postby molnibalage » Sat 30 Apr 2016 22:24

For a panicked single MANPAD squad requires about 15-20 sec to launch 3 missiles... This is enogh time to move on or kill it the single MANPAD guy.

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