How to fight helicopters?

CloakandDagger
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How to fight helicopters?

Postby CloakandDagger » Sat 18 Jan 2014 07:56

So, you guys were helpful in helping me to tweak my deck to fight tanks correctly. But now I seem to have a new problem with my NATO type C deck.

These enemy helicopters just won't die!

Yes, I use planes whenever the enemy is dumb enough to send them straight at me, away from their AAA. But those are usually just transport helicopters, and it doesn't happen often.

So what my problem is is helicopters with rockets or ATGMs just slaughtering my forces, and I can't really retaliate due to lack of effective weaponry. You would think maybe my Tomcat could lob a LRAAM at them, but, heh, NO.

My best weapon against them seems to be Redeye infantry. And I do spam them absolutely in every building and forest I can find. The problem is that I quickly run out of them, since I use them as my main AA method. Worse, the ones I do place run out of ammo very quickly fighting helicopters, and then I'm virtually defenseless against planes. (Mostly, I spam F14s for AA too, but I send them out in waves of all 4 at once to guarantee kills and prevent loses)

So, other than Redeyes, what do I try to fight helicopters with? Well, the only actual AA unit I use is the Oeil Noir, which is a SPAAG radar AA. It has great ammo longevity, which is why I like it, but the range isn't great, and it is vulnerable to SEAD, which happens a lot. The other choice is 20mm cannons against helicopters. For this, I have the M163 armed with a Vulcan. It has no radar, so it's pretty useless against planes, and against helicopters it manages to have worse range than a regular 20mm mounted on a vehicle. It also runs out of ammo almost instantly. Last, I have the AMX-30B tank, with the turreted autocannon. It has terrible accuracy. Also, all the 20mm cannons have only about 1500 range, which doesn't work well because the helicopter ATGMs have about 2400+ range.

So, what are my options? Am I going to be forced to cut something to get infrared or radar AA that runs out of ammo even faster than a vulcan?

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Radioshow
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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby Radioshow » Sat 18 Jan 2014 08:54

If your using a CAT C deck or don't have Rolands/Chaps/Gepards then what do you expect?

What you have is all you get. If you want to take on choppers with ground units you need a decent SAM and SPAAG.
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CloakandDagger
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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby CloakandDagger » Sun 19 Jan 2014 21:47

So is that it? I HAVE to cut something to buy Hawks or Chaparrals?

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raventhefuhrer
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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby raventhefuhrer » Sun 19 Jan 2014 22:32

Well, you have several options.

The Cat C Chaparral is a piece of crap, so I would avoid it. Your Oeil Noir is a decent enough AA unit, but you might need another SPAAG to try and give bulk to your lines. Also the Redeye are a great choice too, just make it a priority to keep them supplied. If you're running out of them, consider adding a card of German Fliegerfaust or Danish Hamlets...these are exactly the same as Redeyes, just using localized names.

Other than that you could invest in cheap planes. The Canadian Freedom Fighter and Danish Draken (40 point one) are excellent helicopter hunters, just normally they will die if you're attacking a helicopter anywhere near an enemy ADN...but it's a good trade killing a 100 point helicopter for a 40 point plane.

You should have an I-HAWK for killing enemy planes, though I suppose in a pinch it works against helicopters.

Can't help but point out that using a Cat C deck as your main, general purpose deck is foolish at the best of times, especially for someone who's a relatively new player (judging by your post count and other things).
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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby CloakandDagger » Sun 19 Jan 2014 23:32

raventhefuhrer wrote:The Cat C Chaparral is a piece of crap, so I would avoid it. Your Oeil Noir is a decent enough AA unit, but you might need another SPAAG to try and give bulk to your lines. Also the Redeye are a great choice too, just make it a priority to keep them supplied. If you're running out of them, consider adding a card of German Fliegerfaust or Danish Hamlets...these are exactly the same as Redeyes, just using localized names.


No, no, I'm not running out of AA infantry, I have 44 of them, I'm running out of ammo. And with them spread all over the map, reloading is a major pain, especially since the entire point of AA infantry is putting them in hard to reach places.

raventhefuhrer wrote:Other than that you could invest in cheap planes. The Canadian Freedom Fighter and Danish Draken (40 point one) are excellent helicopter hunters, just normally they will die if you're attacking a helicopter anywhere near an enemy ADN...but it's a good trade killing a 100 point helicopter for a 40 point plane.


My air choices are pretty much locked down. I have 2 cards of F14s, 1 card of Jaguar As, 1 card of the HE bomb Mirage, and 1 card of Ardvark.

And also, what you mention is another problem. They generally aren't 100 point helicopters, they're 45 point Mi24s or so, I just don't feel right sacrificing units to kill them.

raventhefuhrer wrote:You should have an I-HAWK for killing enemy planes, though I suppose in a pinch it works against helicopters.


The reason I don't already is because I use the F14s and infantry AA to take care of everything. Although, since this thread is pretty much telling me I absolutely must have them, I'm going to try replacing my mortars with Hawks.

raventhefuhrer wrote:Can't help but point out that using a Cat C deck as your main, general purpose deck is foolish at the best of times, especially for someone who's a relatively new player (judging by your post count and other things).


Other than a few small issues, I love my deck. I have huge numbers of everything, so I never have issues with attrition.

I saw someone else's deck in another thread. He had a dozen tanks, and 8 tank destroyers. Sure, they are better than mine, but when I have 101 tanks and 22 tank destroyers, what does it matter?
Last edited by CloakandDagger on Sun 19 Jan 2014 23:46, edited 1 time in total.

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raventhefuhrer
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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby raventhefuhrer » Sun 19 Jan 2014 23:41

You should post a screenshot of your deck.
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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby CloakandDagger » Sun 19 Jan 2014 23:58

raventhefuhrer wrote:You should post a screenshot of your deck.


Gah, the forum limit of 256Kb for picture size is irritating, I can't use the default steam screenshots.

I just replaced my mortars with the hawks.
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RedDevilCG
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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby RedDevilCG » Mon 20 Jan 2014 00:08

You need a card of supply trucks. A single truck is cheap and able to supply your AA infantry quite well. Drop a card of your choppers for it perhaps?
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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby CloakandDagger » Mon 20 Jan 2014 00:12

RedDevilCG wrote:You need a card of supply trucks. A single truck is cheap and able to supply your AA infantry quite well. Drop a card of your choppers for it perhaps?


I think this is an operator error type of thing. Most of the time I just flat out don't resupply things because I'm trying to put my attention on too many things at once. The few times I do resupply, it's because I really need something resupplied.

Hence the reason I use choppers, they get their faster and I don't need to put as much attention to them.

i've had the suggestion to get rid of my choppers before, so what I did was switch from the Chinook to the HKP. It's a smaller chopper, so I can have them in more places at once, and I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. I think it's a good compromise.

However, I think I may see another option avaliable. I could remove my M163 in the vehicle slot, and replace it with helicopter SAS?

The SAS have blowpipes which are decent, but I will only get 7 helos worth of them. Still, maybe if I fly the helos straight at the enemy choppers and disembark the SAS, they could kill them?

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Re: How to fight helicopters?

Postby Radioshow » Mon 20 Jan 2014 00:45

I would take your tanks at Hardened/Elite. You will never need that many and if you need that many because you are losing them then they are not helping.

Try not to get into a state of throw away units. All units should have a purpose, and try to keep them alive.

Veterancy not only increase acc(by small amount but noticable) it also increase morale allowing your units to stand up to fire longer without routing. It increases critical hit chances and generally increases their effectiveness.

It's nice to have a crapton of tanks but make most vetted and have one card of 29 trained if you want one card of spam tanks. If facing heavy tanks and you have elite tanks you stand a much better chance of stopping them if you can maneuver yourself into good positions.
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