Fine-tuning NK/China

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keldon
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sat 3 Dec 2016 16:32

Sweedish_Gunner wrote:I will say the tank accuracy is rather generous with China however, the new Type 88's have the same accuracy as a T-80U...


This is generally a problem with T-80U being gimped. The Chinese tanks all have FCS based on western imports. I suggested 60% to eugen due to they are mostly based on british FCS and i don't want people to cry about 65%, which btw. the Nana-yon got as a balance move.

Bougnas wrote:Didn't the -IIA use the PLA-125? The 105mm isn't so interesting on this platform with the ZTZ-88s around.


No, 85 serie only started to sport a 125mm from 85AP. The normal 85-II had a longbarrel 105mm like the 88A and the 85-IIA has a shortbarrel 105mm like the 88B.

This is the post i made in the past about 85 line: viewtopic.php?p=960415#p960415
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sat 3 Dec 2016 17:31

After the tank armor and shell, I took a better look at the Type-69 RPG series.

Image

The main differencesto RPG-7 as you can see in the pic above are:

- Foldable bipod
- Different iron sight, supposedly able to adjust for crosswind
- Wooden heat shield with grooves
- Carry handle
- Detachable optical sight, which is standard issue. See pics below


Image

In production

Image

During 1979 border conflict with Vietnam

The launcher configuration is awfully similar to RPG-16, which looks like this

Image

The grenades for Type-69 are:

- Base: 110mm RHA at 65°, 300m range (1970)
- Type-1: 150mm RHA at 65°, 300m range (1983)
- Type-2: 180mm RHA at 65°, 200m range (1985)
- Type-3: 180mm RHA at 65°, 290m range (1988)

Also a special Grenade called Type-84 is available. It has higher range (400m), accuracy (error of 0,45m at 300m compared to 1,2m) and the same penetration as Type-1 grenade.


I think regardless of grenade all Type-69 launcher can be buffed to 55% accuracy minimum. The Type-69-I currently ingame can prolly be changed to Type-84 for Zhanshi '85 with the following stats: 65% acc, 875m range, 20 Ap, 10 rpm.

Sauce:
http://www.zgjunshi.com/Article/Class38 ... 601_3.html
http://war.news.163.com/09/0724/01/5EUV ... 11232.html

Will translate or answer question if asked to.
Last edited by keldon on Sat 3 Dec 2016 17:35, edited 2 times in total.
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> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Bougnas » Sat 3 Dec 2016 17:50

I agree with the changes. I wish the RD (and solewhat BD) infantry tabs were as fleshed out as Yugo's and Fins's.

The lack of unit and weaponry variety is just insane, especially when China for example used a fuckton of MGs and RPGs. (No Type 70-I ingame...)

Edit: The changes to RD are just awesome. The M1992 APC is now able to hunt stuff with the 8 Konkurs, and the Z-9A HJ-8 became a great AT helo with enough speed to engage the ennemy opennings.

The new ZTZs are simply the best RD tanks I've ever used. The ZTZ-80 are great for fire support, and even fought very well against Chieftain Mk.10 thanks to the 9rpm and good accuracy. The ZTZ-80A are as well very effective as mediums.

Finally the WZ-551 are so much more durable now. Even the AT JH-7 became relatively decent thanks to the hardened veterancy. I've already managed to snipe a Marksman and a Leo 2A5NL (sideshot) :mrgreen: .

Some kill lists of my tacticools, this time I was first on the list with 1130pts worth of kills. (also, Maglan hunt)

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/201 ... 2008-1.jpg
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/201 ... 2018-1.jpg
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sat 3 Dec 2016 20:50

Preliminary Infantry rerole proposal

This comprehensive proposal is based primarily on this report on NK special purpose infantry operation profile. Detailed pieces of information has already been highlighted on the first post. The proposal is structured as modular, with a single core of 3 changes being minimum.

I believe with the following RD coalition infantry option will undergo a powerful transformation, however this whole thing hinges on one very important precondition, that being:

- Gonbobyong reroled into shock recon squad (with it's current transport options)

This opens up light infantry slot for following minimum core changes:

- Yuckjeondae '75/'90 rerole into Shock light infantry, price cut by 5 pts to each (with all current transport options)
- Jeogockdae '75/'90 rerole into 15 men elite squad, price increase by 5 pts to each (with all current transport options)


Judging from the report mentioned above, the role of NK special purpose forces are rather fluid, ingame this means the marines could easily be considered the amphibious assault troops of the elite division, Gonbobyong can be considered light recon for forward intelligence gathering and infiltrating etc.

Now for the ingame advantages of these changes:
- NK gains a shock 10 men fighting recon squad (With long range RR even to snipe stuff with)
- NK and RD gains a light infantry with good load out and excellent IFV (Type-69-III and BTR-80A)
- NK and RD gains a 15 men elite squad like Kustjägare/Koprs Mariniers/Commando-Marine with good loadout and transport options (carbine+23 AP RPG, BTR-80A and even Korshun in mech deck)
- Better deck viability due to availability of more cost effective shock units in various deck types
- Foremost it buffs NK! And it solves the redundancy issue between Jeogockdae/Yuckjeondae rather elegantly IMO.


These changes above require no weapon change, extra transports or even name changes. Further refinement can be added as second module of changes like these:

- Gonbobyong Recon gets SPG-9 level RR ammo from USSR => 16 AP
- Type-73 MG for Bochongsu changes to belt-fed with appropriate burst length
- Tweaking Type-69 RPG according to this info post and thus buffing the majority of RD infantry: viewtopic.php?p=1001924#p1001924
- Type-81 MG gets 10% more accuracy
- Zhanshi '85 gets Type-81 as MG (optionally the Type-84 grenade for RPG)


The final module would be:

- Add BRDM-1 as recon transport for Gonbobyong
- Zhanshi '85 gets ZSL-56 as transport
- Luzhandui rename to Shenjian and get at least into mechanized deck
- Infantry Specialists reroles: Ban-Tank Konkurs, RPG FIST etc.


With 2 modules fully applied RD infantry tab will offer:

- Bonchongsu with ok-ish MG in unique AA IFV option
- Zhanshi line troops offers accurate AT even in CAT C
- Zhanshi '85 as 15 pts modern line troop offers strong anti-inf/armor ability at the same time (buffed Type-81 MG and Type-84 RPG with 65% acc and 20 AP at 700m)
- Luzhandui stays as strong marine infantry
- Yuckjeondae light shock infantry in many deck types and offer high-end AP for 25 pts (55% acc+23 AP at 700m)
- Lijian '75 will be a very powerful allrounder elite squad due to buffed MG and RPG accuracy
- Jeogockdae as elite marines takes the middle spot among the good Korps Marinier/Kustjägare and the bad Kommandosi/Commando-Marine


I believe this will make RD infantry tab much more powerful and meta worthy!
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> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Bougnas » Sat 3 Dec 2016 21:12

Looks good. I think that Shenjian could be added to motorized and airborne as well with the ZSL-56, WZ-551 and Z-9A tranports being added.

However the BRDM-1 wouldn't be a very realistic transport option for Gongbobyong as it can only carry 4 people (+3 crew members). However, it could be added to Jeongchaldae.

Also, there is still an inconsistency with the ZZC-56: it has 500km autonomy unlike other BTR-40 and doens't have 1 armor at the sides and rear.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sat 3 Dec 2016 21:31

I'll update the inconsistencies when i redo the first post. Albeit the BTR-40 was rather a rare sight in PLA anyway.
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> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Dread » Sun 4 Dec 2016 10:03

Shrike wrote:Compiled a list of goodies I compiled from a list that was made in a thread a while back. Compiled this list awhile back as a way to fill in any gaps while adding more flavor to the coalition.

North Korea
Infantry:
Spoiler : Youth Reverists :
Because having one choice of reservists wasn't enough, now with my grease guns
Image

Spoiler : Ban-Konkurs :
Image

Spoiler : RPO Infantry :
Image


Support:
Spoiler : 370mm Tripple Gun :
Image

Spoiler : M1985 :
240mm MLRS
Image

Spoiler : M1992 :
122mm SPH
Image

Spoiler : M1989 Koksan :
All around improvement to the 1978 model, faster aim time etc as well as a twelve round ammo capacity.
Image


China
Infantry:
Spoiler : Type 85 107mm rocket Teams :
Image
Type 85 107mm rocket , designed 84, entered service 87
The whole thing weights 23kg, single fire use, man portable and issued to platoon , 8.5kg max range.
http://weapon.huanqiu.com/107_mm_1985


Support:
Spoiler : PLZ-89 :
122mm Howitzer
Image

Spoiler : PLZ-45 :
155mm Howitzer
Image

Spoiler : WM 80 :
Image
WM 80 273mm MLRS with 8 rockets, 1983

max range 80km
max speed 1140m/s
fin stabilized and also has small rockets on the sides to stabilize it
has 2 kind of warheads, both 150kg
one cluster HEAT with 380 bomblets that could penetrate 80-100mm armor (rha? it just says armor)
another one with 34kg explosives and 16822 fragmentation pieces
http://www.zgjunshi.com/Article/Class38 ... 45522.html

Spoiler : HQ-12 :
Image

Spoiler : HQ-17 :
TOR-M1, can be a basic Tor instead for Campaign reasons
Image
Intro 1997, slightly OOTF


Spoiler : Type 89 :
Tracked 122mm mrls for tank and mech units
Image


If I were to make a dlc/update for the dragons these probably be the units I'd pick since not only do they fill in the gaps, but they would also bring flavor. We can only dream though :(

Also credits to:
another505
Admiral Piett
Grabbed_by_the_Spets
Dread
feeblezak
Oryx Blog

For finding these units and information on them


All of this please ^

It's been really cool coming back to the game these past few days, all of the above would just make it perfect for me.
List of DPRK units I want
Resident KPA nerd.
Image

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Dread
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Dread » Sun 4 Dec 2016 10:04

Shrike wrote:Compiled a list of goodies I compiled from a list that was made in a thread a while back. Compiled this list awhile back as a way to fill in any gaps while adding more flavor to the coalition.

North Korea
Infantry:
Spoiler : Youth Reverists :
Because having one choice of reservists wasn't enough, now with my grease guns
Image

Spoiler : Ban-Konkurs :
Image

Spoiler : RPO Infantry :
Image


Support:
Spoiler : 370mm Tripple Gun :
Image

Spoiler : M1985 :
240mm MLRS
Image

Spoiler : M1992 :
122mm SPH
Image

Spoiler : M1989 Koksan :
All around improvement to the 1978 model, faster aim time etc as well as a twelve round ammo capacity.
Image


China
Infantry:
Spoiler : Type 85 107mm rocket Teams :
Image
Type 85 107mm rocket , designed 84, entered service 87
The whole thing weights 23kg, single fire use, man portable and issued to platoon , 8.5kg max range.
http://weapon.huanqiu.com/107_mm_1985


Support:
Spoiler : PLZ-89 :
122mm Howitzer
Image

Spoiler : PLZ-45 :
155mm Howitzer
Image

Spoiler : WM 80 :
Image
WM 80 273mm MLRS with 8 rockets, 1983

max range 80km
max speed 1140m/s
fin stabilized and also has small rockets on the sides to stabilize it
has 2 kind of warheads, both 150kg
one cluster HEAT with 380 bomblets that could penetrate 80-100mm armor (rha? it just says armor)
another one with 34kg explosives and 16822 fragmentation pieces
http://www.zgjunshi.com/Article/Class38 ... 45522.html

Spoiler : HQ-12 :
Image

Spoiler : HQ-17 :
TOR-M1, can be a basic Tor instead for Campaign reasons
Image
Intro 1997, slightly OOTF


Spoiler : Type 89 :
Tracked 122mm mrls for tank and mech units
Image


If I were to make a dlc/update for the dragons these probably be the units I'd pick since not only do they fill in the gaps, but they would also bring flavor. We can only dream though :(

Also credits to:
another505
Admiral Piett
Grabbed_by_the_Spets
Dread
feeblezak
Oryx Blog

For finding these units and information on them


All of this please ^

It's been really cool coming back to the game these past few days, all of the above would just make it perfect for me.
List of DPRK units I want
Resident KPA nerd.
Image

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Bougnas
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Bougnas » Sun 4 Dec 2016 17:46

Keldon, could you do a post about the ITF Attack helos developped by China please? I don't remember exactly if the armed Z-9 variants entered service before 1991.
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keldon
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sun 4 Dec 2016 18:26

Bougnas wrote:Keldon, could you do a post about the ITF Attack helos developped by China please? I don't remember exactly if the armed Z-9 variants entered service before 1991.


Dug out the old one, basically not much. Choppers are legitimately the Achilles heel of China/RD

viewtopic.php?p=959825#p959825
Image
> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

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