USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

thenosh
Lieutenant
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed 11 Sep 2013 19:32
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby thenosh » Tue 13 Dec 2016 16:17

I see. Yet do not agree, this wasn't an argument when SovKor existed, was it?
"Where is my T-80UK CV with top mounted BUK-M1?"

-Wargame global chat, somewhen somewhere-

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6700
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby molnibalage » Tue 13 Dec 2016 16:31

urogard wrote:They are not even average
USSR is still decent on account of having literally everything you'd ever need making for a well all round deck, but not exceptional in any place. Which is a problem because chances are, no matter where you go, someone will go against you who picked the thing that is exceptional in the area that will matter most.

USA is just meh, underwhelming air force, limited tank options, mediocre infantry (with terrible RPG options to boot), crap AA options (except patriot). Basically you pick USA to get access to ATACMS, Longbow and Patriot. That's literally it.

Exactly. This is USA, but I would add M1A2. It is the strongest tank in the game because of the 22+24 FAV+AP combo. But except these unicorn units USA is way too many area is crap - no usable elite inf, crap AD, no sniper recon - or simply is not represented well. In ALB USA had clearly superior stuff in AIR tab. Now even YUG or FIN can have the same level as USA. I have to laugh...

GuerreroDelAlba wrote:the problem is, Patriot/atacams/longbow are very situational. useful only in large games.

Exactly. In 1v1 ranged ATACMS and Patriot literally has no use. Longbow has but only situational. In 10 v 10 USA can be very strong but as the battle is more scattered and similar to 1v1 it becomes more crap.

In 1v1 game where cheap USSR inf. anywhere can pop up because of amhi capability USA is simiply crap. INF is weak, has no good transport except M113 Only problem if you compare USA M113 with IDF you realize that IDF M113 should be cost 10 or USA and other M113 should come free comparing to Zelda or the another IDG M113.

terror51247
Major
Posts: 1851
Joined: Thu 27 Sep 2012 12:55
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby terror51247 » Tue 13 Dec 2016 16:58

I dont get where people take from that idea that the ingame US's airforce is weak.It has the best air superiority due to tomcats.It has the best SEAD(prowler).Good bombers.Good anti tank.Its not weak in any area whatsoever.
I dont get why people say its AA is weak as well.It has the best anti airplane AA in the game.The only one that can actually prevent airstrikes, something which is a really big advantage.The pivads does more dmg than a biryusa, costs less, and has an infinite clip.Chaparrals which costs less than a baseline tunguska and does the anti helo job better.Its only significant disadvantage is that is dies really easy due to its 0 top armor.
Its rpg's are just as good as everything ussr has with the exception of rpg29 and rpg 26.
Its tank line, while not exceptional due to some gaps, isnt bad at all.
M1a1HA is strong.
M1a2 is strong.
M1a1HC is strong.
M8 ags is strong.At least comapared to redfor's competitors in its price range.
Its gaps are in the 60-130 pt price range.All of its tanks in this price range are mediocre at best.
Not to mention that some of the US's deck's gaps are filled with canadian units in norad.If the coalition is killed(something that should happen) then the US can and should get many buffs.
Last edited by terror51247 on Tue 13 Dec 2016 17:11, edited 2 times in total.
How can anyone play to a faction's strength if the major flavour of that faction is overpriced units in every category?

thenosh
Lieutenant
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed 11 Sep 2013 19:32
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby thenosh » Tue 13 Dec 2016 17:00

molnibalage wrote:Exactly. This is USA, but I would add M1A2. It is the strongest tank in the game because of the 22+24 FAV+AP combo. But except these unicorn units USA is way too many area is crap - no usable elite inf, crap AD, no sniper recon - or simply is not represented well. In ALB USA had clearly superior stuff in AIR tab. Now even YUG or FIN can have the same level as USA. I have to laugh...


Crap AD? Do you mean Air defence? I agree that US could need something, but only when taken out of Norad aswell. However I say this not because they're really underperforming, but more like because they feel quite old compared to all those shiny new nations and units.
"Where is my T-80UK CV with top mounted BUK-M1?"

-Wargame global chat, somewhen somewhere-

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6700
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby molnibalage » Tue 13 Dec 2016 17:17

thenosh wrote:
molnibalage wrote:Exactly. This is USA, but I would add M1A2. It is the strongest tank in the game because of the 22+24 FAV+AP combo. But except these unicorn units USA is way too many area is crap - no usable elite inf, crap AD, no sniper recon - or simply is not represented well. In ALB USA had clearly superior stuff in AIR tab. Now even YUG or FIN can have the same level as USA. I have to laugh...


Crap AD? Do you mean Air defence? I agree that US could need something, but only when taken out of Norad aswell. However I say this not because they're really underperforming, but more like because they feel quite old compared to all those shiny new nations and units.

The problem is the price and avail of Chappy comparing its capability. In RL US AD was crap, so you cannot change this. Today the problem is so serious that US has Stinger / Avenger....
...and the next level is Patriot...! :shock:

The problem of US deck is totally lack of usable inf. Rifl. / Rifl '90s is crap. Delta force is ubershit. Creap transport and cannot fight even against stone age APC/IFV.

Tunguska is immune to SEAD with SAM while PIVADS is not even it uses much less time its target distance meter...

So many similar issue make so crap the USA in way too many areas.

The AIR tab was a very strong point in ALB to select USA while in RD USA is simply not a superpower comparing to USSR or sooner or later anybody... This is the consequnce of era shitf and idiotic buffs.

User avatar
KattiValk
General
Posts: 6319
Joined: Tue 19 Nov 2013 03:39
Location: Houston, Texas (CST)
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby KattiValk » Tue 13 Dec 2016 18:02

US AD wouldn't be an issue if the BRADATS was in. The fact it isn't basically makes every single post '92 prototype currently seen follow separate rules.

JoonasTo wrote:Yes please, my KTs need some more firepower :lol:
KTs don't use Bushmaster I. They already have one of the best autocannons in the game.

Zero_Ecm wrote:US need wheled IFV with Bushmaster and it realistic? Lol nope, give it to minor.
Whoa there, don't let MadMat find out you said that.

Seryn
Sergeant Major of the Army
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon 5 Dec 2016 06:00
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby Seryn » Tue 13 Dec 2016 20:16

kiheerSEDMAN wrote:US AD wouldn't be an issue if the BRADATS was in. The fact it isn't basically makes every single post '92 prototype currently seen follow separate rules.

JoonasTo wrote:Yes please, my KTs need some more firepower :lol:
KTs don't use Bushmaster I. They already have one of the best autocannons in the game.

Zero_Ecm wrote:US need wheled IFV with Bushmaster and it realistic? Lol nope, give it to minor.
Whoa there, don't let MadMat find out you said that.


Bradley ADATS? ENGAGE SHOTGUN MODE! OTOMAJIX 2.0!
KTs are fine, Shoot them a dirty look with a Fuchs Milan and they die, and the Fuchs Milan is Shiiiiiiiiiit, And I LOVE the Fuchs Platform IRL. So me saying that is painful.
I have an informant near Patis all he needs to do is drive from the Pas-De-Calais Region and whisper the information into Madmat's ear like a smooth, soothing Syrup :D

User avatar
RoadkillRodger
Lieutenant
Posts: 1148
Joined: Fri 9 May 2014 07:24
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby RoadkillRodger » Tue 13 Dec 2016 20:21

XanderTuron wrote:
RoadkillRodger wrote:Honestly I think they're okay as is. They'd be great if they came in a 10 (or better, 5) point wheeled transport.

The minimi isn't awful, and neither is the eryx.


Uh, Highlanders come in the Grizzly and Bison, which are 10 points.


Yeah, I didn't bother fact-checking before I posted that. I take them in one deck and don't bother to use EC so I had neither a good memory of them or a decent comparison. :oops:

XanderTuron
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 591
Joined: Thu 10 Mar 2016 23:17
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby XanderTuron » Tue 13 Dec 2016 20:41

RoadkillRodger wrote:Yeah, I didn't bother fact-checking before I posted that. I take them in one deck and don't bother to use EC so I had neither a good memory of them or a decent comparison. :oops:


Well, obviously you need to spend more time playing Armoury Hero.
My mouth is moving, but nothing relevant is coming out. Also I cannot guarantee that my research is perfect or even remotely accurate.

I have low quality Wargame Red Dragon casts on my youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/XanderTuron

User avatar
wargamer1985
Brigadier
Posts: 3305
Joined: Sat 4 May 2013 00:36
Contact:

Re: USA and USSR the superpowers... or not?

Postby wargamer1985 » Tue 13 Dec 2016 20:49

kiheerSEDMAN wrote:US AD wouldn't be an issue if the BRADATS was in. The fact it isn't basically makes every single post '92 prototype currently seen follow separate rules.

JoonasTo wrote:Yes please, my KTs need some more firepower :lol:
KTs don't use Bushmaster I. They already have one of the best autocannons in the game.

Zero_Ecm wrote:US need wheled IFV with Bushmaster and it realistic? Lol nope, give it to minor.
Whoa there, don't let MadMat find out you said that.

Hell, wouldn't be a problem with an authentic Avenger.
APPLY TO THE GLORIOUS CULT OF THE WARHAWK! LIBERATING NAZIS SINCE 1939!
Image

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 52 guests