Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Terracos
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Terracos » Wed 3 May 2017 13:42

The thing is that it also should be able to be manned by opposing forces then.

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FrangibleCover
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 3 May 2017 14:26

Terracos wrote:The thing is that it also should be able to be manned by opposing forces then.

It'd be a fun idea for campaign. If you bail out a vehicle in one mission and then advance the front line and capture it you get it as a captured vehicle in the subsequent missions of the campaign. Bailed out crits followed by captures are rare enough that it probably won't have much of an effect outside of flavour.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby orcbuster » Wed 3 May 2017 14:29

https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/chieft ... nt_Events/

Chieftain as always delivers on a subject without dramatic musings.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Saavedra » Wed 3 May 2017 20:19

TheOnlySpy wrote:The problem with your dramatic description of being fired upon in a tank in this conversation is that the prevailing idea here was allowing a tank to recover from a "bailed out" after an extended period of time not being shot at, not in the midst of combat.


I don´t know if it already happens in the game that crews remount their vehicles, but... if they don´t, I find it perfectly realistic. I can´t imagine many soldiers would be up for returning to combat on battle-damaged vehicles left in the field without the attention of mechanics. And that´s assuming all the controls and systems in the tank are perfectly functional, which they probably won´t if we are talking about a bail-out caused by penetration.

Also, I really don´t think SD simulates any "not in the midst of combat" situations.

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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Sgt._Pepper » Wed 3 May 2017 22:21

Grosnours wrote:I think I saw a bailed out command tank still exert its command range and give stars to units around. Anyone to confirm or was I daydreaming ?


Happened to my command Stuart last game. As the vehicle still exists the command range doesn't go away.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby TheOnlySpy » Thu 4 May 2017 10:49

Saavedra wrote:I don´t know if it already happens in the game that crews remount their vehicles, but... if they don´t, I find it perfectly realistic.

The mechanic is worse that nearly every alternative, why are you defending it under the argument that it's plausible, rather than improving the mechanic itself?
Saavedra wrote:I can´t imagine many soldiers would be up for returning to combat on battle-damaged vehicles left in the field without the attention of mechanics. And that´s assuming all the controls and systems in the tank are perfectly functional, which they probably won´t if we are talking about a bail-out caused by penetration.

And I can't imagine that any military would be okay with leaving a functional tank by the roadside for literally no reason other than that the crew decided to bail. I'm the commander, and I'm telling my Jumbo they're gonna go support the infantry on the front-line, no matter if a 37mm shell hit you 5 minutes ago. If the tank has been somehow rendered combat-ineffective, THEN WHY DOES THE GAME NOT TELL YOU? We already have statuses for broken tracks, engines, transmissions, guns, knocked out crew members and so forth, but we're supposed to just assume "something" broke?

Saavedra wrote:Also, I really don´t think SD simulates any "not in the midst of combat" situations.

What? If I shove the front-line past a crew-less tank, and it hasn't taken so much as a 9mm off the hull, how is that a combat situation? You seem bizarrely focused on providing explanations to rationalize poor game mechanics rather than more logical explanations that would justify improved mechanics. And SD is hardly a simulation, what with military engagements going from first contact to full-fledged battle in 20-30 minutes, psychic communication between all units of an army and any number of other things.

The alternatives to this I see are:
    •Allow "Crew Bailed Out" to be recoverable
    •Allow "Crew Bailed Out" to be recoverable if certain conditions are met (time without being fired upon)
    •Allow "Crew Bailed Out" to be repaired via supply truck, representing a new crew being brought forward
    •Allow infantry to enter an abandoned tank, restoring it to use, but with experience penalties
    •Make "Crew Bailed Out" simply destroy the tank, or replace it with something like "Slow Ammo Cookoff"

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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby teslars » Thu 4 May 2017 19:22

"Crew bailed out" should outright kill the tank if it stays like that, the difference would be mostly cosmetic (the tank didn't blew up in a fireball and just sit there fairly intact).

That or allow us to get the control of this unit under certain conditions already mentioned by many people in this thread.

But there is no purpose to keep this dead unit labelled as alive if it's just as good as dead.

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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Mike » Fri 5 May 2017 03:04

Grosnours wrote:I think I saw a bailed out command tank still exert its command range and give stars to units around. Anyone to confirm or was I daydreaming ?
I don't really get bailed out. Either the tank should self-destruct (let's it's scuttled by its crew) or be able to be manned again. But the zombie status is a bit odd.


Bailed out tanks act like a tank that can't move or shoot. They still influence the frontline and give command range.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby Mister Maf » Sat 6 May 2017 14:25

FrangibleCover wrote:
Terracos wrote:The thing is that it also should be able to be manned by opposing forces then.

It'd be a fun idea for campaign. If you bail out a vehicle in one mission and then advance the front line and capture it you get it as a captured vehicle in the subsequent missions of the campaign. Bailed out crits followed by captures are rare enough that it probably won't have much of an effect outside of flavour.

As I understand it, while it was standard practice for the Germans to use anything they captured (hence all the beutepanzers in the game), the Allies just destroyed captured German tanks. Late in the war, the Germans actually ran disruption operations where they would disguise themselves as Americans and attack other Allied forces with their own hardware to cause confusion.
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Re: Let vehicles recover from "Bailed out" critical

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 6 May 2017 15:09

Mister Maf wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:
Terracos wrote:The thing is that it also should be able to be manned by opposing forces then.

It'd be a fun idea for campaign. If you bail out a vehicle in one mission and then advance the front line and capture it you get it as a captured vehicle in the subsequent missions of the campaign. Bailed out crits followed by captures are rare enough that it probably won't have much of an effect outside of flavour.

As I understand it, while it was standard practice for the Germans to use anything they captured (hence all the beutepanzers in the game), the Allies just destroyed captured German tanks. Late in the war, the Germans actually ran disruption operations where they would disguise themselves as Americans and attack other Allied forces with their own hardware to cause confusion.

Which is fair, although on occasion Allied troops would pick up German vehicles. I can't find any examples of that from Normandy after a quick search, although there are examples before and after Normandy. There's also this photo from the Isigny-sur-Mer captured equipment pile that includes a Hanomag with a star on it but that's not by any means evidence of combat use.
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Eugen have shown a captured 88mm Flak as part of their campaign dev diary (presumably with some historical basis) and one of the campaigns is a hypothetical one with 21st Panzer, who were already not exactly a hub of logistical commonality, so I don't think it's a totally unreasonable mechanic and it makes the 'Bailed out' crit serve an overarching purpose.
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