The most neglected, yet underrated Wargame unit type.

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Bougnas
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The most neglected, yet underrated Wargame unit type.

Postby Bougnas » Sat 2 Jun 2018 18:37

Hi everyone.

Since the forum is pretty calm nowadays, I wanted to say my 2 cents about a unit type and concept that could have been quite interesting in Wargame, yet was never really explored in depth: light trucks and transport jeeps.

I am not simply talking about the return of several cards of 5pt trucks like it's ALB all over again, but an entire series of vehicles that were sometimes quite critical to Cold War logistics for many countries.

Indeed, one coud find surprising that such ubiquitous trucks such as the Unimog series squad transport trucks (used in large numbers by Denmark, W-Germany or ANZAC), the Volvo L3314N Feltvogn (2300 produced in Norway by Raufoss, which surprised me by the importance of the Norwegian military industry of the time) or even Landrovers are relegated to recon, cargo or command infantry transports, when they were used to carry full blown infantry squads around and were often much more numerous than armored APCs.
Spoiler : :
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Now this sounds a bit NATO-centric, because it's mostly what I found during my research, but REDFOR didn't lack these as well.

What I found really unfortunate when it came to Wargame balance is that on the one hand we have clowncars carrying 15men-squads when they could only carry 4/5 IRL, but on the other hand we never ever got transport jeeps capable of carrying 2men-special weapons teams, nor said squad level trucks that were far better alternatives.
This situation led the HMMVW in particular to artifically and quite unauthentically buffed to near-APC status, when it could have been perfect as that small, cheap and numerous prime mover (remember the real M998 in ALB? Pepperidge Fram remembers)
Spoiler : :
Image
Much better than the previous clowncar, isn't it?


Meanwhile, many specialized decks (Denmark or Norway pre CAT-A motorized, airborne decks in general) were quite unrealistically gimped by said vehicles not being available. Just imagine the impact of transport jeeps in airborne! (also jeeps in helicopters plox)
Spoiler : :
Image
VDV go home!


Having these units in the game could have really given extra flexibility and depth in the balance of some particular decks and countries, and I feel that this could be a really interesting concept to mod into the game.
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Bollywood Baloney
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Re: The most neglected, yet underrated Wargame unit type.

Postby Bollywood Baloney » Sat 2 Jun 2018 23:20

Bougnas wrote:5pt trucks like it's ALB all over again

Haha you wish they were 5p

Good post nonetheless. The problem with unarmed vehicles though is that they are spammable when dirt cheap and useless when given a price. One solution I could think of is to make them capturable (I don't know if that can be modded) or tinker with availability.

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Re: The most neglected, yet underrated Wargame unit type.

Postby James-Bond » Sun 3 Jun 2018 00:05

Very interesting.
Annoying air deck is sheer heli transport spam.
Like ground alternaitves should be availiable.
(Ps I like ussr air)
Few comments.

"but on the other hand we never ever got transport jeeps capable of carrying 2men-special weapons teams, nor said squad level trucks that were far better alternatives."
Im probably reading wrong.
But what about zu-23 trucks, strela truck (e-ger), tow 2 cars etc?
Would this be the kind of thing you meam across nations?

A way to reduce people using transports as spam as in ALB.
transports have ability to pick up some logistical supplies
Example you get 6? 40pt log vehicles, the transports could take logistics off them and distribute them. Making resupply of front line easier.

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Bougnas
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Re: The most neglected, yet underrated Wargame unit type.

Postby Bougnas » Sun 3 Jun 2018 09:50

James-Bond wrote:Very interesting.
Annoying air deck is sheer heli transport spam.
Like ground alternaitves should be availiable.
(Ps I like ussr air)
Few comments.

"but on the other hand we never ever got transport jeeps capable of carrying 2men-special weapons teams, nor said squad level trucks that were far better alternatives."
Im probably reading wrong.
But what about zu-23 trucks, strela truck (e-ger), tow 2 cars etc?
Would this be the kind of thing you meam across nations?

A way to reduce people using transports as spam as in ALB.
transports have ability to pick up some logistical supplies
Example you get 6? 40pt log vehicles, the transports could take logistics off them and distribute them. Making resupply of front line easier.


What I meant by transport for 2-men teams is jeeps capable of carrying, say Milan squads or MANPAD squads, so not really the heavier weapons carriers.

@Bollywood: yeah, the risk of spam is by far the most important, if not the only reason why we don't have them in the game. Technically you can make them capturable, combine that with the lowest optics and you can prevent them from being used as meatshields or suicide recon (of course you still know that something has captured them, but you don't know what).

Besides I heard that 5pt APCs are usually used as meathshields anyway, so 5pt trucks may not be that popular in that role.
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another505
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Re: The most neglected, yet underrated Wargame unit type.

Postby another505 » Mon 4 Jun 2018 15:41

Meanwhile, many specialized decks (Denmark or Norway pre CAT-A motorized, airborne decks in general)were quite unrealistically gimped by said vehicles not being available. Just imagine the impact of transport jeeps in airborne! (also jeeps in helicopters plox)


Not really. You forgot that airborne in wg means para dropped/ heli assault
A lot of airborne decks already got units that are using strategical airlift instead.... I have not found any source/pic of crotale and roland truck being airdropped or carried helo.

Bollywood Baloney wrote:
Bougnas wrote:5pt trucks like it's ALB all over again

Haha you wish they were 5p

Good post nonetheless. The problem with unarmed vehicles though is that they are spammable when dirt cheap and useless when given a price. One solution I could think of is to make them capturable (I don't know if that can be modded) or tinker with availability.


but 5pt trucks, unarmed, 150kmph on road but terrible offroad speed is not a bad choice. Sometimes all you care is speed while remaining cheap. I feel like truck transport could have more card avail. and still wont be spammed since 5pt tracked with MG is a better spam unit anyways.
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Bougnas
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Re: The most neglected, yet underrated Wargame unit type.

Postby Bougnas » Mon 4 Jun 2018 19:54

another505 wrote:
Meanwhile, many specialized decks (Denmark or Norway pre CAT-A motorized, airborne decks in general)were quite unrealistically gimped by said vehicles not being available. Just imagine the impact of transport jeeps in airborne! (also jeeps in helicopters plox)


Not really. You forgot that airborne in wg means para dropped/ heli assault
A lot of airborne decks already got units that are using strategical airlift instead.... I have not found any source/pic of crotale and roland truck being airdropped or carried helo.


That's true but bar the US Humvee, the BMD/BTR-D in USSR and some rare exceptions you usually don't have any ground transports in airborne. Jeeps and some light trucks are good candidates.
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Re: The most neglected, yet underrated Wargame unit type.

Postby another505 » Wed 6 Jun 2018 01:47

Bougnas wrote:
another505 wrote:
Meanwhile, many specialized decks (Denmark or Norway pre CAT-A motorized, airborne decks in general)were quite unrealistically gimped by said vehicles not being available. Just imagine the impact of transport jeeps in airborne! (also jeeps in helicopters plox)


Not really. You forgot that airborne in wg means para dropped/ heli assault
A lot of airborne decks already got units that are using strategical airlift instead.... I have not found any source/pic of crotale and roland truck being airdropped or carried helo.


That's true but bar the US Humvee, the BMD/BTR-D in USSR and some rare exceptions you usually don't have any ground transports in airborne. Jeeps and some light trucks are good candidates.


I wouldnt mind more jeeps and light trucks for them. But it would make them more playable in a casual environment
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