Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

artao
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby artao » Thu 28 Mar 2013 22:23

arrogant? :lol:
whatever
no legit comments on my proposal, so attack me instead. fine. :roll:
pretty dismissive way of responding to suggestions. this has got to be one of the most opinionated forums i've ever been on. way to much, "I think I'm right, therefore I know you're wrong." .. and I admit I've fallen into the trap and have taken to responding in kind.

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freakybadger
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby freakybadger » Thu 28 Mar 2013 23:21

artao wrote:arrogant? :lol:
whatever
no legit comments on my proposal, so attack me instead. fine. :roll:
pretty dismissive way of responding to suggestions. this has got to be one of the most opinionated forums i've ever been on. way to much, "I think I'm right, therefore I know you're wrong." .. and I admit I've fallen into the trap and have taken to responding in kind.


At least theres no karma system, its impossible to have an opinion on a forum when theres a karma system in place to put down anyone with a different opinion.

Another thing id like is if you could deploy troops on the field without any transport for a discount. It might just be me who thinks this is a good idea but at least i wouldnt have to litter the battle ground with btr60's and id have a reason to use my transport helos more than once.

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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby lmp » Fri 29 Mar 2013 01:03

Here's my take on the subject. I hope I won't insult anybody and no one will find me arrogant ;).

I'm a game programmer and I hear "it should be easy to implement" a lot. And not just from users, but from my game designer as well - a person who has a much better understanding of the inner workings of our games than anybody outside the company. I then sit down with him, we discuss all the details, special cases, balance issues, usability issues... and it becomes apparent it's not at all that simple.

Just because something isn't hard to program in itself, doesn't mean it'll be easy to neatly fit it into the "grand plan", i.e. system architecture and game design. You mentioned codebase quality. You know how a good codebase is created? With good planning. If you change the plan too many times too late into the implementation, you end up with hacked together, sloppy, hard to maintain code. Or you miss your deadlines. Or both. This is why you want to avoid fundamental changes to the game late in the development process if possible.

Same goes for game design and balancing. The later it is in the development process the harder it is to integrate new concepts into the game (and the more of your older work needs to get scrapped). We all know how much time it took the marshals and devs to release the final W:EE patch. And wasn't it "just" a change of a few variables here and there?

But lets imagine Eugene decided to indulge you and replace one simplification with another slightly smaller simplification. They programmed it, balanced the units, tested, fixed all the issues that'd come up... pushed the release date a week or two, and there you go. You have your feature implemented. But now I (or some other user) want my feature too. For example, I want different loading and unloading times for troops. After all, dismounting from a BTR-60 with only top hatches is much harder than from a Bradley or SKOT with those nice big doors in the back. Think how much more realistic would it be! "All it would take", I say, "is to add one variable". How hard can that be? Of course, after mine, there would be another request... I'm sure you understand Eugene would need to draw the line at some point in order to ship the game.

Well, guess what, they did. Only one feature short of where you'd want it ;).
Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:NEVA gonna give you up, NEVA gonna shoot you down, NEVA gonna turn around... And burn you!

NEVA gonna make you cry, NEVA gonna say goodbye, NEVA gonna have you fry, and hurt you...

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TheFluff
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby TheFluff » Fri 29 Mar 2013 01:24

lmp wrote:Here's my take on the subject.

This is a Good Post. A++ would read again.

artao
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby artao » Fri 29 Mar 2013 02:33

Thanks for the clear-headed, respectful, and well-put post Imp. You make some good points.
I'd LOVE to see different load/unload times. It could be workable :P
I guess I just find it really frustrating when Eugen's reps say, "Nope. We're doing it our way." with neither explanation nor discussion. Especially with the regularity of usage of the excuse, "It's too hard." Sure, my proposal is likely not as simple as I see it. Certainly not undoable or game-breaking however. I feel it would also add to the game, not detract from it.

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OpusTheFowl
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby OpusTheFowl » Fri 29 Mar 2013 03:27

artao

You have been told directly from MadMat what their reasons are and to see you write " with neither explanation nor discussion" is extremely galling.

Here is a link to his post...you might want to reread his warning as well.

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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby artao » Fri 29 Mar 2013 04:49

OpusTheFowl --
** POST DELETED BY POSTER **
whatever man. the stated reason for having transports in ALB the same as in EE is, "because that's what we decided to do."

PS - Forum rules are to take personal posts to PM. you've broken said rule. anything further harassment from you toward me should be via PM

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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby quigglebert » Fri 29 Mar 2013 05:02

What, opus was stating is that madmat said, there are reasons to why the transports are working as such, and this is because there are too many variables to code for in a game not long for release, opus then kindly linked you said explaining post of what was said and the aforementioned warning by the representative of the company you are currently slating.

Put simply, the task of coding in that many variables that would be needed to apply such a mechanic is too large for eugen to justify it, on top of that the system in use is used because when you have so many other mechanics in game to work with, you need to focus on the meat of the situation, which in this matter is the combat mechanics
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artao
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby artao » Fri 29 Mar 2013 05:14

Yeah. MadMat gave a reason on page 1, prior to any of my posts.
I disagreed and pointed out a simpler way than what he brought up. MY post on page 1 was rational and not attacking or offensive. But apparently my usage of the word "ridiculous" was too much for some people, and that led to attacks against ME and not my idea.
Opus's post has nothing to do with this thread. He's been harassing me for months over my posts about mod tools for EE, which I've given up on. Apparently he still "has it out for me".
My idea involves database edits and a couple of rules that are transport related only. I've admitted that it probably isn't as easy as I think it is, while pointing out that games in the past have done it with great success, so it's not undoable.
I feel my ideas would ADD to gameplay. Some disagree. That's fine. But personal attacks about it are out of line. Problems with my ideas? Fine. Point them out and discuss them. Problems with me? Keep it to yourself, cuz I really don't care.
nuf said

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quigglebert
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Re: Realistic transport capacity and per soldier prices

Postby quigglebert » Fri 29 Mar 2013 05:20

Correct its not impossible, would it be of great benefit to the game, probably not, would it be easy to code the thing in, not by a long shot, finding that section of transport code then editing that, you then have to edit the infantry code to change the meaning of it in relation to transport, then you'd have to change the survivability coding to adjust the fact that if the transport is destroyed who lives and who dies.

Whilst the logic grid itself is fairly simple, trawling thousands of lines of coding is not, nor is it a useful time-sink at this stage.

As for any issue with Opus, I advise you speak to other moderators independent of him, but that is beef I am in no position nor of the inclination to deal with
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