Taiwan and US vs China

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ericdude88
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby ericdude88 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:10

Excroat3 wrote:The reinforcement process would begin with tomahawk and F-16CJ strikes from japan against Chinese SAM sites. Next up will be C-5s loaded with troops with escort from F-15Cs and F-15Js and more F-16CJs. C-5s land safely, troops on the ground. If no airstrip available, 101st Airborne will drop in.


Because China is apparently North Korea, completely devoid of air defense. Indeed, PLA has nothing more than Strela-2 spam like North Korea. F-16 will have complete domination of skies, whilst US sleeper agents make sure that not a single PLAAF J-10/J-11 interceptor or SAM site goes active as US delivers MURICAAA freedom over Chinese sites.

Look up HQ-9 while you're at it.

101st Airborne is magic huh? Does it even have capacity to transport an entire division by air drop? Oh, and can it drop in heavy equipment or just a group of infantry commandos who will be surrounded by Chinese armor as soon as they drop in?

Oh and last time I checked they're based in Kentucky. Try again.

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby ericdude88 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:13

Excroat3 wrote:
and troops from the US mainland fly into japan for the mission.


LOL.

Yes, while we're at it lets fly in the Kantemirovskaya guards tank division from Moscow. Rain some T-80BV on those mofos. No logistics necessary, MURICA TRANSPORT PLANES CAN TRANSPORT 1000 ABRAMS PER SORTY AND HAVE ENOUGH FUEL TO JUMP ACROSS ENTIRE PACIFIC, MEANWHILE IMMUNE TO ENEMY AA MISSILES.

Try again.

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Excroat3 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:16

Troop movements in china would not go unnoticed, and the airborne will get to japan WAY before hostilities start

I said the F-16CJs would have SEAD equipment and DEAD missiles, and would be backed up by AWACS and F-15s

Lastly, parachuting into a friendly country is much easier than doing so in an enemy country
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby ericdude88 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:20

Excroat3 wrote:Troop movements in china would not go unnoticed, and the airborne will get to japan WAY before hostilities start

I said the F-16CJs would have SEAD equipment and DEAD missiles, and would be backed up by AWACS and F-15s


Ever heard of the organization, commonly referred to as PLAAF? People's Liberation Army Air Force?

Ever heard of HQ-9? You can jam Iraqi Dvina's from 1950. Yes because SEAD apparently makes all anti-air useless. Fly in a single F-16 with the obscure "SEAD equipment", watch China blow up from MURICA might!

Ever heard of geographic advantage? Where is closest US airbase / logistics depot, how many planes it can support, now compare to China in the theatre.

Lastly, parachuting into a friendly country is much easier than doing so in an enemy country


Reminds me of this lol...:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... p-vIw#t=33

Apparently, US airborne troops are omnipotent gods that can stop entire armored divisions with their bare hands, need no logistic support, and most of all can instantly fly from Kentucky to Taiwan whilst being absolutely invincible from enemy fire.
Last edited by ericdude88 on Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:36, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Kovlovsky » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:21

My view on this is that Taiwan alone couldn't resist for very long without external help. It would inflict serious casualties on the PLA, but they will loose at the end. However, with US, a PRC victory is impossible because they still don't have completely caught up with the west on economical, technological and miltary grounds. After years of Mao mismanagement, China is only recovering since Deng Xiao Ping took power in 1978. And Mao had taken power in a desesperately underdevelopped country in 1949. China has made huge gains, but they still have a lot to do.

My view on all this is that this war that you talk so much about will never happen. At most, there will be some minor skirmishes about some worthless islands for access on hypothetical oil deposits or other reasons. That's it. People here are too eager to throw their Cold War logic on PRC because it's remotely communist (in reality, beyond the ruling of the party, it's not communist anymore). But China isn't Russia : they have regional imperialistic goals, but China is a very old nation, older than most of the current nations existing right now. The Chinese people think on the long term. They have always done it and will continue to do it. They will be patient and wait for the reunification to be done more or less orderly. This is something people in the West don't understand. China has no qualm at annexing Tibet, Mongolia or Sinkiang, but when something is materialy and politically impossible to do by force, they can be extremely patient. China is no North Korea.

Besides, even if China has an economic rivalry with US or the West, they are completely at ease with Pax Americana as long as they don't try to play too much in their tradition sphere of influence in Asia. They are happy that it's the US who has to keep garnisons everywhere and do the policeman job. It costs less to them that way.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Excroat3 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:24

I keep saying that there will be F-15Cs in the air, and we could throw in a couple B-2 counter air missions in there as well (bomb those airfields!). What is with you and your obsession with the SAMS of China? A HARM is still a HARM, and it will mess things up.
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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby ericdude88 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:28

Excroat3 wrote:I keep saying that there will be F-15Cs in the air, and we could throw in a couple B-2 counter air missions in there as well (bomb those airfields!). What is with you and your obsession with the SAMS of China? A HARM is still a HARM, and it will mess things up.


Of course! F-15C, like rest of MURICA planes, can insta-deploy from national guards arsenal of Washington state, and are TOTALLY NOT OUTDATED! Because MURICA planes never become outdated. They will insta-pwn entire PLAAF, after teleporting across Pacific Ocean and flying within SAM range! They infact, DEFLECT MISSILES! No fuel necessary, they're powered by freedom.

And don't forget MURICA HARM, for a limited time only, they are not only immune to all forms of jam, but they also have 900% accuracy! Fire a single HARM, doesn't matter if Chinese radar operate on L band, S band, doesn't matter! Every MURICA HARM can launch from Hawaii, and every missile guarantees disabling of 100 Chinese SAM sites, firing plasma hamburgers from its warhead. Meanwhile Chinese are too busy eating new Peking Duck Wrap from McDonalds, they won't resist!

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby Excroat3 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:30

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby ericdude88 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 21:32

Kovlovsky wrote:My view on this is that Taiwan alone couldn't resist for very long without external help. It would inflict serious casualties on the PLA, but they will loose at the end. However, with US, a PRC victory is impossible because they still don't have completely caught up with the west on economical, technological and miltary grounds. After years of Mao mismanagement, China is only recovering since Deng Xiao Ping took power in 1978. And Mao had taken power in a desesperately underdevelopped country in 1949. China has made huge gains, but they still have a lot to do.

My view on all this is that this war that you talk so much about will never happen. At most, there will be some minor skirmishes about some worthless islands for access on hypothetical oil deposits or other reasons. That's it. People here are too eager to throw their Cold War logic on PRC because it's remotely communist (in reality, beyond the ruling of the party, it's not communist anymore). But China isn't Russia : they have regional imperialistic goals, but China is a very old nation, older than most of the current nations existing right now. The Chinese people think on the long term. They have always done it and will continue to do it. They will be patient and wait for the reunification to be done more or less orderly. This is something people in the West don't understand. China has no qualm at annexing Tibet, Mongolia or Sinkiang, but when something is materialy and politically impossible to do by force, they can be extremely patient. China is no North Korea.

Besides, even if China has an economic rivalry with US or the West, they are completely at ease with Pax Americana as long as they don't try to play too much in their tradition sphere of influence in Asia. They are happy that it's the US who has to keep garnisons everywhere and do the policeman job. It costs less to them that way.


Yes but this thread is a theoretical scenario. I think I'll end the debate here as there is absolutely no one on the otherside providing a decent military argument (except for RBK). Too many amateurs.

You're very right about China politically however.

Excroat3 wrote:We have F-22s in Japan as well, throw some KC-130s over USN controlled waters and we will be fine


I agree.

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Re: Taiwan and US vs China

Postby CommieKiller757 » Tue 11 Feb 2014 22:08

ericdude88 wrote:
1. Reinforce from where? US has magical troops popping out of nowhere?

2. Even the East/West of Taiwan would be vulnerable to Chinese naval aviation, unless a carrier battlegroup is brought. Then the DF-21D comes into play...

Don't act like US has military bases in the middle of ocean that somehow hold huge depots of ammunition, fuel, vehicles, and men or anything.

Tell me, which US troop concentration would be able to reinforce Taiwan within a week, and with what type of numbers/equipment. Including how they will get there and logistics.

People act like US is like the omnipotent god with ability to instantly spawn in an infinity number of M1A2 Abrams out of the Pacific Ocean's volcanoes or something.


1. The 3rd MEF can deploy from Okinawa to Taiwan immediately, the entire 25th Infantry Division, which is garrisoned in Hawaii and Alaska, is available to deploy by air or sea to Taiwan, and elements of the 2nd Infantry Division can be deployed from Fort Lewis, Washington by air to Taiwan. Both Infantry Divisions have Stryker Bdes as well as one light infantry Bde and one Airbourne Bde in the 25th, all of which are air-mobile via C-130s, C-17s, and C-5s. Image
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2. American aircraft can control the skies around eastern Taiwan at the very least, with carrier aviation as well as Air Force aircraft from Okinawa and Guam. I also think you overestimate the ranges of land based Communist Air Defense.
3. Supplies won't be as big of an issue as you seem to think, the U.S. forces would be able to use ROC supplies due to the weapons used by the ROC army, 5.56mm rifle rounds, 105mm tank rounds, ect.
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