Fine-tuning NK/China

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Admiral Piett
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Admiral Piett » Thu 15 Sep 2016 07:46

another505 wrote: i like already. how about switch J-7h to J-7D? so it keeps its 1 ton bomb and gets better ecm , and J-7c to J-7h's name with 10 ecm
you also don't have to change its missiles, makes life easier.


Yeah, that would be great and provide a consistent progression: cheap 2x500kg + 20% ECM bomber ----> 1x1000kg + 30% ECM Bomber. Those little changes would change them from "great when the enemy has zero AA" to "great when the enemy has some AA." That is a substantial improvement. I imagine that should be fine from an authenticity perspective short of Xeno coming in here and saying the J-7D has different hard points from the J-7H or something.

keldon wrote:Ping.


Edit:
Another505's/Xeno426's suggestion here is well worth adding to the OP I think. In short:

Current J-7C --> J-7H
Unchanged load out (2xSRAAMs, 2x500kg bombs)
ECM: 0% --> 20%
Price: 75-80 Points
Date: 1985

Current J-7H --> J-7D
Unchanged load out (2xSRAAMs, 1x1000kg bomb)
ECM: 0% --> 30%
Price: 95 Points
Date: 1991

another505 wrote: 8-) <3 xeno
so maybe 15pts to J-7D (95 pts)
and 5-10 to NEW J-7H (75-80)

even at these prices, they should remain 3 per card base avail. compare to other bombers (which means no change in avail)


Xeno426 wrote:That's old. I'd go for 30% ECM on the J-7D and 20% for the J-7H.
Last edited by Admiral Piett on Thu 15 Sep 2016 17:04, edited 4 times in total.

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another505
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby another505 » Thu 15 Sep 2016 08:08

Admiral Piett wrote:
another505 wrote: i like already. how about switch J-7h to J-7D? so it keeps its 1 ton bomb and gets better ecm , and J-7c to J-7h's name with 10 ecm
you also don't have to change its missiles, makes life easier.


Yeah, that would be great and provide a consistent progression: cheap 2x500kg + 10% ECM bomber ----> 1x1000kg + 20% ECM Bomber. Those little changes would change them from "great when the enemy has zero AA" to "great when the enemy has some AA." That is a substantial improvement. I imagine that should be fine from an authenticity perspective short of Xeno coming in here and saying the J-7D has different hard points from the J-7H or something.

keldon wrote:Ping.


Another505's suggestion here is well worth adding to the OP I think (unless Xeno knows something I don't, which is possible). In short:

Current J-7C --> J-7H
Unchanged load out (2xSRAAMs, 2x500kg bombs)
0% ECM --> 10% ECM
Date: 1985

Current J-7H --> J-7D
Unchanged load out (2xSRAAMs, 1x1000kg bomb)
0% ECM --> 20% ECM
Date: 1991

What would prices go to with those changes? Anyone?



probably 5 pts for the NEW J-7h
and 10pts for the J-7D

I think that helps quite a lot, RD's bomber are shit. (B-5 is overrated and 1 per card is killing it)
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Xeno426 » Thu 15 Sep 2016 08:36

Admiral Piett wrote:So basically, 20% ECM and better SRAAMs on the J-7C (re-rolled to D), and 10% ECM on the J-7H.

That's old. I'd go for 30% ECM on the J-7D and 20% for the J-7H.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby another505 » Thu 15 Sep 2016 08:59

Xeno426 wrote:
Admiral Piett wrote:So basically, 20% ECM and better SRAAMs on the J-7C (re-rolled to D), and 10% ECM on the J-7H.

That's old. I'd go for 30% ECM on the J-7D and 20% for the J-7H.

8-) <3 xeno
so maybe 15pts to J-7D (95 pts)
and 5-10 to NEW J-7H (75-80)


even at these prices, they should remain 3 per card base avail. compare to other bombers (which means no change in avail)
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Razzmann » Thu 15 Sep 2016 10:39

another505 wrote:Like razz said before
Buffing the ztq62g noise back would be nice, we have leo1v with normal gun noise... And that tank is arguably much better than ztq with its 10 rof and much better accuracy

Nande checked the files and it actually has "normal" gun noise. And even a lower KE gun noise than the recon Leopard.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby QUAD » Thu 15 Sep 2016 16:34

ZIS-3 field gun was capable as an indirect fire system; the SU-76 should be able to behave like a ghetto mortar.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby GARGEAN » Thu 15 Sep 2016 17:06

QUAD wrote:ZIS-3 field gun was capable as an indirect fire system; the SU-76 should be able to behave like a ghetto mortar.

Almost any arty system is capable for indirect fire. Questions only in FCS, shell speed and max elevation angle.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby QUAD » Thu 15 Sep 2016 17:12

GARGEAN wrote:
QUAD wrote:ZIS-3 field gun was capable as an indirect fire system; the SU-76 should be able to behave like a ghetto mortar.

Almost any arty system is capable for indirect fire. Questions only in FCS, shell speed and max elevation angle.


I mean I don't think PAK40 could act as artillery but lots of Soviet WWII guns could. I think [fire pos] SU-76 is accurate and helps the Dragons, with rof and acc buff as well
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby axnone » Thu 15 Sep 2016 17:20

QUAD wrote:I mean I don't think PAK40 could act as artillery but lots of Soviet WWII guns could. I think [fire pos] SU-76 is accurate and helps the Dragons, with rof and acc buff as well

but then what tab would you fit this ghetto mortar into?it could be a fun little FSV,but i'm definitely not spending valuable support tab spaces for this when i have better modern mortar pieces.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Thu 15 Sep 2016 17:21

Admiral Piett wrote:Another505's suggestion here is well worth adding to the OP I think (unless Xeno knows something I don't, which is possible). In short:

Current J-7C --> J-7H
Unchanged load out (2xSRAAMs, 2x500kg bombs)
0% ECM --> 10% ECM
Date: 1985

Current J-7H --> J-7D
Unchanged load out (2xSRAAMs, 1x1000kg bomb)
0% ECM --> 20% ECM
Date: 1991

What would prices go to with those changes? Anyone?


I'll first repost the J-7 family tree:

http://www.afwing.com/intro/j-7/legend/J-7_version.jpg

And to avoid confusions, everybody should know that the alphabet suffix is new, PLAAF switched to it sometimes ago, but the original naming convention is pretty much like the tanks. The J-7C would be in that case J-7-III. Why is this important? Cause since long ago China used alphabet for export models and that new naming convention tends easily be mixed and mistook for one of the export models.

Now, there are primary 3 lines of J-7. The first and most produced one are the J-7-II line which is based on MiG-21F, a more nimbler fighter from what i hear. The second line is J-7-III (aka J-7C), which is based on MiG-21MF. The last one is J-7E line (which started to use the alphabet naming), it is in simple terms a greatly improved J-7-II, biggest difference is the double delta wing (dunno how to call it in english, might be the wrong name).

So for all intent and purpose the ingame J-7C should have got the same ecm like MiG-21MF from the beginning (currently at 20%). The weapon loadout is fine, beside the wrong cannon.

http://www.afwing.com/intro/j-7/legend/J7_legend-28.htm
飞机上还加装或换装了 KJ-11 型自动驾驶仪、506 型双频段超短波电台、264 甲型无线电高度表、XS-6A 型信标接收机、WL-7 型无线电罗盘、HZX-4 型航向姿态系统、930-2 型机尾雷达告警器、605 甲型敌我识别器、941 型箔条/红外干扰弹投放器和 481 型数据传输/导航系统等机载电子设备。

blablabla stuff about onboard electronics... type 930-2 RWR... blablabla... type 941 flare/IR bait launcher


The J-7D or J-7-IIIA came along in 1991, but generally that line is quite small, all in all production never exceeded 100 planes, that is including the IIIA. The primary improvment are: A better engine, better avionics, btter radar, capability to fire PL-8, all direction radar warning receiver and a twin barrel 23mm cannon. The J-7 is capable to carry that 1000kg bomb but it is rather unusual, since the centerline droptank needs to go, thats also the reason why i was trying to make J-7 pure ASF in my "could-be-roster". Anyway to rerole J-7H into J-7D would be quite "logical" ingame, 1) it's model is closer to the real thing 2) it's the direct successor to J-7C

For completion i'll also add a short summary of J-7H or rather the J-7-IIH. It is basically a J-7-II with the capability of firing PL-8, that's it nothing more.

Technically the ingame J-7H just needs to be renamed and get a bit ecm, but i'm not sure if eugen consider this as rerole of inconsistency fix. But I will add the ecm for both planes under inconsistencies.
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