Fine-tuning SK/Japan

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Xeno426
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Postby Xeno426 » Tue 11 Oct 2016 04:31

codextero wrote:Suggestion, re-role the F-16 Peace Bridge into a Maverick and AIM-9 multirole

So you'd just have an F-16 with AGM-65Bs.
The only other Maverick they got was the AGM-65G, which would be limited to two on the airframe. Annoyingly, this is the exact same armament that I've been wanting for the US F-16C.

codextero wrote:- Wonky ASF, both KF-16C and F-15J are flawed. F-15J is hampered by high ECM and missile load jacking up the price so it misses out on 2 elite. But it's MRAAMs are only 50% accurate and it's in the same price range as ICE and Barak. KF-16 C is only good for killing low ECM bombers, killing anything with over 30% needs 2 of them. Loses horribly in air jousts so it has to avoid enemy ASF.

Suggestion, no historically accurate idea other than turn the KF-16 into a block 52 clone. F-15J is good stats wise, but it's just screwed by availability.

A general bump in AIM-7 accuracy would help, but this would require repricing of all AIM-7 aircraft.

codextero wrote:Suggestion, reduce price for all I-HAWKs and the Korean PIP 2. Perhaps reduce it's anti helo range to compensate.

You'd have to do that for everyone else's HAWK system then.

codextero wrote:Suggestion, buff M48 series to 7 FAV, keep prices the same.

Same would have to be done to the German and US tanks.
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RoadkillRodger
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby RoadkillRodger » Tue 11 Oct 2016 04:38

Xeno426 wrote:[
codextero wrote:Suggestion, reduce price for all I-HAWKs and the Korean PIP 2. Perhaps reduce it's anti helo range to compensate.

You'd have to do that for everyone else's HAWK system then.


It's not that crazy imo. the hawk is probably overpriced right now.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby codextero » Tue 11 Oct 2016 05:50

Xeno426 wrote:-snip-


Yea, all IHAWKS and all M48. This includes the Swedish, Danish, Japanese, and American IHAWKS. The Swedish one is especially bad, considering NOAH is only 10 points more but much much better.

All M48 is just a technicality, only SK possibly uses their M48's. Norway and Germany has Leopards, M60 in the US tab is better but not by much. WSRA with 7 armor becomes a serious contender because it can tank 2 konkurs/kokon hits while dishing out 17 AP at 2275.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Razzmann » Tue 11 Oct 2016 10:36

HAWKs are adctually fairly decent now with the missile speed buff. Reduce anti helo range and price for all the systems with increased helo range would probably be enough.

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Fine-tuning SK/Japan

Postby keldon » Tue 11 Oct 2016 17:02

Preface:
____________________________
This is the siblings thread to the RD one. So, this is also based on the message made by FLX. IMHO BD is in a better shape compared to RD and thus require far less work to make them more competitive.

After that is said, i will point again to the summary by a competitive player for an overview of the general flaw of the coalition. I personally can't contribute sources like I did for RD due to the language barrier, so if you are asking for new wepons/units you need to bring your own sources. (please no Wikipedia)

The segments will be again tab focused and comes with a description of the problem.

Check this blog out about general tweaks and possible units for Japan

Top priority
____________________________


- Kutei '90 gets Panzerfaust 3 as RPG, price to 35 pts



Reasoning
Spoiler : :
As far as I know the Panzerfaust 3 was exported to Japan first in 1993. Unfortunatly old forum links died and so are the translated Japanese articles gone too. Anyway, give more units access to this weapon will improve the infantry AT situation by far.


- F-4E peace-pheasant II to 2 elite per card


Reasoning
Spoiler : :
The BD airborne AT situation is pretty grim, with the peace-pheasant as the only AT plane. Given it's price it should have much better veterancy options.


Suggestions
____________________________

INF:

BD lacks infantry based AP


- Replace all Japanese infantry using M72 LAW with CGM2 (Syoujyu-Buntai '75, Kutei '75, Hudou-Ren)
- Syoujyu-Buntai '90 gets Panzerfaust 3 as RPG
- M67-Han gets CGM2 and becomes a RPG FIST, rename to Tai-sensya Han



Reasoning
Spoiler : :
As far as I know the Panzerfaust 3 was exported to Japan first in 1993. Unfortunatly old forum links died and so are the translated Japanese articles gone too. Anyway, give more units access to this weapon will improve the infantry AT situation by far.

All Japanese infantry RR should change due to authenticity issue. Instead all curent units which uses RR should getCGM2 with this as source of information, including the current infantry who uses LAW for infantry AP buff's sake.


TANK:

BD's mid to high-end tank options are lacking

- K1 gets 5 pts price cut to 85 pts, possibly proto to prevent mixed deck abuses
- K1A1 gets 1 more AP to 23 AP, 70% acc, 65% stab, no price increase
- Kyu-Maru Shiki price cut by 5 pts to 165
- All M48 variants should get minimum of 7 FAV and 9 rpm
- M48A5K to 60% acc, price to 40 pts
- M48A5K WRSA to 60% acc, price to 50 pts
- Nana-Yon Shiki variants get minimum of 7 FAV


Reasoning
Spoiler : :
BD has an thinly armored tank line till K1 shows up, which is a very good medium tank, unfortunatly it got nerfed because of mixed blue meta back in the days. After the many nerfs to mixed deck and the appearance of Merkavas, I think it is reasonable to give it back 85 pts price tag.

BD high-end also lacks armor, but dishs out dmg, which Kyu-Maru does admirably. Along the same line the K1A1 could also become more like it, just a little more cheaper and slower rpm. The tank is from mid 2000 after all, so some nice improted shells from Germany is reasonable to be assumed. The improved accuracy are based on papers from this post

Kyu-Maru gets a price cut since it is a side grade to Leclerc

Low-end tanks like M48 and nana-yon should get more authentic IRL armor value


AIR:

Plane AT is severly lacking, especially since LGB nerf, and ASF have low cost effectiveness.

- F-15J to 140 pts and 2 veteran per card, replace AIM-9M with AAM-3 (65%acc, 5 HE), introdate to 1991.
- KF-16C loadout change to 2xAIM-9M and 4xAIM-120A, price to 160 pts, 2 hardened per card. AlTERNATIVE: split AIM-120 into 2 weapon slots to enable ripplefire, price to 170 pts, 2 rookie and 1 elite.
- F-4E peace-pheasant II to 2 elite per card
- F-4EJ Kai rerole into cluster cluster bomber (12x250kg)



Reasoning
Spoiler : :
The AT situation would still not be ideal, but at least peace-pheasant would be numerous and cheap. I do not know if the F-1 can carry more bombs, if yes, then it can be buffed too.

ASF should largely be usable after those tweaks, it lacks a true high-end ASF, however one can argue about that SEAD/ASF combo is already a flavorful unit. At least there would be some solide backbone units to choose from.

Important: The current F-15J has the wrong missile for its introdate, for it to carry the AIM-7 version it needs to go to at least 1990. At the same time we can just add 1 more year and give it the AAM-3.

Japan as a nation severely lacks aircraft AT, the F-4EJ Kai would serve the coalition and the nation better reroled into a cluster plane. Since it's bomb load is not at all impressive compared to SK F-4 and the F-1 is doing the HE bombing better and more costeffective. Concerns about Japanese cluster munitions are talked about here: viewtopic.php?p=986036#p986036


BD airtab has some authenticity based issue, which creates a few redundancies.

- KF-5E Jegong Ho loadout change to: 2xAIM-9J, 4 xRockeye cluster bombs
- A-37B Dragonfly loadout change to: 2xAIM-9B, 4xMk 82 bombs


Reasoning
Spoiler : :
F-5E can't carry 6 SRAAM IRL, instead a ground strike loadout is used. For reference pictures look at this post. The changes for dragonfly should be done in parallel to the KF-5E to avoid redundancy.


New weapon/units
____________________________

K1A

Spoiler : :
South Korea's own weapon for special forces, for authenticity this weapon should take precedence over the Carbine M727

Weapon stats options:
- standard SMG stat
- BluFor carbine stat
- RedFor carbine stat


AAM-3

Spoiler : :
Domestic SRAAM of Japan, produced in 1991 and should be the armament of CAT A Japanese aircrafts. Xeno suggested to give it 5% better accuracy over the AIM-9M

Post about conducted tests: viewtopic.php?p=986904#p986904


Japanese M270 MLRS

Spoiler : :
Another fast aiming arty piece for the coalition


Type-96 multi-purpose missile system

Spoiler : :
For details of the weapon please visit this post


Inconsistencies
_____________________________
- All F-4 variants should have a minimum of 20% ecm, due to RWR and flare launcher. F-4EJ Kai should have 30% due to 1989 intro date and the possibility of ecm pod. (take away 1 AIM-7 due to the pod)
- Hachi-Kyu Shiki IFV should have the same 60% acc and 35% stab like all modern western IFV.
- K263 doesn't have the 2 side AV like other APC it is based on.
- Japanese Hayate CV and closed arrow didn't get 10 HP handed out to humvee derivates.
- K242 107mm mortar is overpriced by 5 pts compared to other 107mm systems, the main characteristics of the mortar itself is 100% identical to other peers.
Last edited by keldon on Sat 7 Jan 2017 14:05, edited 29 times in total.
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Re: Fine-tuning SK/Japan

Postby keldon » Tue 11 Oct 2016 17:03

orcbuster wrote:ping


orc, can you move some of the BD related post in the RD thread over to here? I think it was on the last 2 pages or so. Thank you.
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Re: Fine-tuning SK/Japan

Postby ToTheMetal » Tue 11 Oct 2016 17:18

Oh I'd vouch for SALH Chu-Mat. They should finally become effective then.
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Re: Fine-tuning SK/Japan

Postby RoadkillRodger » Tue 11 Oct 2016 17:21

I'd be cautious of buffing the K1 again, mixed blue is rather viable again with the introduction of maglans and merkava transports (which also seem to be limiting heavy tank use somewhat).

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Re: Fine-tuning SK/Japan

Postby Admiral Piett » Tue 11 Oct 2016 17:23

The Type 90 should get a 5-point price buff. It is a Leclerc side-grade. Also, if the PzF 3 FIST is too strong for Eugen, Japan could get CG M2 FIST instead.

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Re: Fine-tuning SK/Japan

Postby keldon » Tue 11 Oct 2016 17:28

RoadkillRodger wrote:I'd be cautious of buffing the K1 again, mixed blue is rather viable again with the introduction of maglans and merkava transports (which also seem to be limiting heavy tank use somewhat).


One other option would be cutting the range down to 2100m, so nobody would complain about comparison with M1IP again. :twisted:

Admiral Piett wrote:The Type 90 should get a 5-point price buff. It is a Leclerc side-grade. Also, if the PzF 3 FIST is too strong for Eugen, Japan could get CG M2 FIST instead.


Ok, although I honestly think those 12 rpm autoloaded tanks should go up 5 pts each...
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