Fine-tuning NK/China

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Bougnas
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Bougnas » Sun 20 Nov 2016 19:07

If the JH-7 doesn't get a modified loadout, I think that it could be price buffed to about 115pts.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/201 ... 0129-1.jpg


If we compare it to the Peace Rhine here are the differences:
- way worse gun (lol)
- half the AA missiles althought slightly more range on them
- worse range on the ATGM
- way lower amount of fuel but also worse ToT (not very important tho)
- twice the ECM.

If we consider that +20% ECM adds +20 and that all the worse stats cost 5pts, we get to the 115pts. Maybe consider better veterancy options as well.

This or range and accuracy buff on the ATGM.
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keldon
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sun 20 Nov 2016 19:18

Well, YJ-7 is from 1997 i believe, so... a decent accuracy can definitely be argued for. Otherwise 2 at elite for 110 pts tops and i would consider taking it as alternative to Su-25.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby youzhe » Tue 22 Nov 2016 16:47

keldon wrote:I looked into FL-7, can't find any sources on big military forum about it. The best i can find is this:

http://www.armystar.com/wqzb/2012-10-12_4603.html

planned for 1985, but due to funding and poor industrial capacity it failed.


FL-7 only have model,but YJ-5 tested by H-5 in 1984.
Here have some interesting thing:
http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewt ... 7&page=149

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keldon
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Tue 22 Nov 2016 17:43

youzhe wrote:FL-7 only have model,but YJ-5 tested by H-5 in 1984.
Here have some interesting thing:
http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewt ... 7&page=149


I see, this is good, thx! That's what i get for ignoring the navy sub-forum :D

People, seems like we have a CAT B candidate for Chinese SEAD! A short summary:

- YJ-5 is anti radiation missile based on HQ-61 and utilizing techs from shrike used by US during Vietnam war.
- Design finalized in 1984, intendet to carried by J-8 and Q-5, testfire however was conducted with H-5 bomber.
- The performance estimates from testfire was roughly on par with shrike in 1985
- Further improvment to anti-jamming, warhead and more was continued in 1986, significant progress was made in early 1990.
- However the missile was not put into service because the ealier version was quite bad (shrike level bad) and the later better version got rekt by Kh-31 performance.
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亲们!大国梦哦!
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby axnone » Tue 22 Nov 2016 17:52

nice info on the YJ-5,a candidate is better than nothing.
now we have the HQ-61 as a SAM,MRAAM and a SEAD! neat8-)
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二营长你他娘的PLZ-45呢,给我拉来!
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A better Zhanshi`85(`90) for China!
RPG and\or price buff,Type 81 optional.
Dream come true?
:arrow: http://forums.eugensystems.com/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=59331#p1019327

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Frencho » Wed 23 Nov 2016 03:52

Well I'm putting my insomnia to good use reading defence blogs, so I'll share this article on late 80s to 90s Chinese Main Battle Tank composite armour. I'm afraid it's not really good news for buff proposals but it's an interesting read nonetheless.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Wed 23 Nov 2016 17:25

Frencho wrote:Well I'm putting my insomnia to good use reading defence blogs, so I'll share this article on late 80s to 90s Chinese Main Battle Tank composite armour. I'm afraid it's not really good news for buff proposals but it's an interesting read nonetheless.


First the armor related suggestions are based on the RHA estimates of ZTZ-96's 550mm-650mm, for gameplay purposes the armor got reduced for earlier models (which technically isn't needed, since the 85IIA is really a 85IIAP and the 85II is from 1989 which suggest it is the 85IIA).

Now to the blog you linked.
- The CAD image is probably correct for the original ZTZ-85IIAP/M/96
- He is wrong however to assume the armor layout applies to late 96 and even 99, based on the "wedge shaped ERA", if you pull up a pic of Al-Khalid you will see the wedging front
- The "research paper" he linked is a university newspaper which feature various things including homeworks with good grade.
- The image of the armor block is a simplification model (对复合装甲模型进行简化), the image quality is too aweful, i can't really make out the smaller text describing the various components.
- His wording has many "assume", "not confirmed". This is not an issue, since reliable info are scarce especially when he wants to look for modern units. However, longterm PLA watcher would be experienced enough to not believe everything the blogger says as the truth, but one of the many "i believe"s.
- The blogger is also inconsistent with Chinese Tank naming (ZTZ-99G - ZTZ-99A2)
- ZTZ-99 armor is very different to the 96 series (different tank class and development), which i emphasis the author seems to place on equal ground.
- If you are hell bent on insisting everything he assumes are true, then the last passage says "The armor of the T-72B might be less efficient, because the NERA is less sloped". This would mean 16 front armor for all ZTZ-85 series without ERA, the side armor are already thinner than T-72B.

The blogger is working with limited material, but made several wrong assumption and refered to a "research paper" which isn't one, at least the pic he refered to.

I remember you calling this thread and change suggestions full of paper units and fantasy stats, i really hope you have read the first post this time and maybe looked at the reasoning.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby remilia019 » Fri 25 Nov 2016 06:00

With Yugoslavia and Finland coming, we get new 15pts Shock. . .

Can we just have our Lu Zhandui at 15pts already?
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 25 Nov 2016 09:15

remilia019 wrote:With Yugoslavia and Finland coming, we get new 15pts Shock. . .

Can we just have our Lu Zhandui at 15pts already?


15pt shock Proleteri were a surprise to me, I never dared proposing them, tbh. During the stream, they were using M72 LAW in its most basic form (270ish RHA), while they were supposed to use RRB M80 Zolja (300+ RHA), which is analogous to RPG-18 (15 AP).

It is likely that they will go up to 20.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby youzhe » Fri 25 Nov 2016 11:57

remilia019 wrote:With Yugoslavia and Finland coming, we get new 15pts Shock. . .

Can we just have our Lu Zhandui at 15pts already?

If possible,I hope Lu Zhandui back to 15 people.

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