My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Shify
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My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Shify » Sun 13 Jan 2013 16:39

Ok first of all i would like to say that this is not rage post after losing one game. I play this game for a long time now. What you will all see below is my thoughts after last month of playing this game. Kepp in mind that all i write here is unballance in the first 3-5 minutes of the match. This post have nothing to do with lets call it late game. So let`s get on to it.

Let`s start with infantry. Why NATO infantry is not only better but also cheaper than PACT? Here are some examples:



Chasseurs Famas vs Spadochroniarze, in my opinion two most comon infantry units in the game right now.
They both cost 20 BUT Famas is more balanced infantry with their 8/8 acc against infantry and vechicles when Spadochroniarze well thay are only good against infantry (9/4 acc) but what is making the difference is the APC.
SKOT is only fast but it does not have any gun on it. You can ofcourse buy a version with a gun but you have to pay more. Basicly if you want your SKOT to be as good as VAB you have to pay 15 for it OT-64 SKOT 2A. So at the end you have a NATO inf unit whitch is good agaist both inf and vechicle for only 20 and PACT inf which is good only against inf for 30. You might point that SKOT is faster than VAB, it is by 5km/h but VAB have a range of the 1200km when SKOT only 710km. So basicly for every 2 PACT units NATO have 3 same as good as pact ones.


But lets take a look on some cheaper PACT infantry (and by cheaper i mean same as famas) witch is russian motostrelki. They cost 10 like a famas but their combat value is almost 0 (5/6 acc against famas 8/8) for tha same price! Can anyone explain that to me? NEXT


Fast recon inf on helis lets take 4 VPZU and Delta Force.
Delta Force (10/10) on blackhawk witch is going 350km/h cost 60.
4VPZU (9/8) on Mi-8t witch is going 290 km/h cost 60.
Why they both cost the same? Not only Delta Force is much better but it will be faster on field which as we know is crucial on some maps. Again we see example of NATO unit just better for the same price (4VPZU got better spot range OP!)


What im trying to say is that NATO infantry is very very good. Does not matter if they fight against infantry or tanks they are well balanced and they are very cheap. NATO`s APCs are just OP not only they are fast and got so much better range but they have GUNS! Not only nato apcs guns are more accurate, more rate of fire (NATO 7,62 shot 1090 rounds per minute when PACT 7,62 only 600 same goes with 14,5guns) but they are for FREE!

So at the end my conclusion is that NATO inf is better by being more balanced, having much better APC and being much much cheaper.

Now lets get to VECHICLES

As we all know at this point if the game when NATO players prefer to spam cheap units autocannons are very important, co lets take a look on them.

Viesel 1 MK20 (20mm), Bradleys (25mm), Marder`s (20mm) these are most common units for NATO here.
As for PACt units well we have BMP2-BMP3(with 30mm autocannons) not only they are more expensive but again they are less acurate and they have half of the rate of fire as nato guns. You might say well they shot slower becouse they have bigger guns. Thats correct but why PACT 30mm autocannon have same power as NATO 20mm? I just dont understand that. For that price they are just useless (too expensive, slower, less accurate, less rate of fire). Ofcourse they have nice ATGM`s but lets face it right now NATO players do not use any unit above 50 points exepr recon. ATGM`s are not that good to clear swarm or tiny, cheap and fast units that NATO have.

Right now i only see one good PACT vechicle unit wicth is BTR70 ZHALO equivalent to the Marder VST1. The problem is PACT can make only 8 of these in the game compare to 12 Marder VST1, 15 Wiesels and 25 Marder 1.

PACT also have BMP espacialy BMP-1P and 1D. But as i sat at the begining im writing about early game first 3-5 minutes and BMP are too slow to get on the front line in forst 5 min, and we can only make 4 of each lol.


HELIS!


Why?! Why again NATO units are cheaper and better?

To secure better positions for PACT right now the only solution is sending some choppers there with your infantry on it and some bombat choppers. So here is my question how i am suposu to do that when NATO can spam gazelles and cobras? Basicly to take 1 gazelle or cobra at the start you have to make at lest Mi-24D witch is good heli after all but it cost 60 and again its slower. Mi-24D can take a cobra or gazelle 1v1 preaty easy in most fights but in price of one you can have 2 gazzeles and 10 points to spend. Securing a strategic points against good NATO players take a lot of points spend in helis which leaves you with less ground units, and yet you might still be not able to do this becouse you are just slower!

There are 2 more thing`s that i would like to say about helis. All PACT helis got 2 types of rockets 57mm and 122mm. First type 57mm is as good as lets say rocks you are able to kill infantry with is but to take out APC will take you a while. Ofcourse to get 122mm rockets you have to spend more points but its worth it. They are just too good. NATO on their main combar heli witch i belive is cobra 1S have 70mm rockets. What im trying to say is same as infantry NATO rockets are more balanced.

The last thing about helis is the true masterpiece and space technology with most advanced weponary and looks from the future witch is polish Salamandra and Gniewosz! Why they are so expensive!!!! In my opinion they should work as gazelle, but this farmer`s heli not only cost same points as cobra but is also useless! What`s the point of this unit in game anyway?

Summary PACT helis are not weaker i think they are good as a unit but again they are slower and more expensive which again comes to more helis for nato and less for pact.


What i wanted to say after all of this is that right now its nearly imposible to take better positions on map whan fighting a good NATO player. As we all know map control is key to victory and when NATO is controling 70% of the map with better zones its difficult to fight them. Their units are cheaper, more balanced and faster. Ofcourse you might say that pact have better tanks and altilery or BURATINO (you have mortars for 20lol) but thats not the point.
Last edited by Shify on Sun 13 Jan 2013 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Soundwolf776
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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Soundwolf776 » Sun 13 Jan 2013 16:56

*facepalm*

Okay, it seems you don't have the game to check stats - so you write that Spados costs the same as Chasseurs FAMAS and mistake polish zmech and russian motostrelkis stats. But you can still see them on wargame-ee.com, database is still correct for infantry stats.

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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Shify » Sun 13 Jan 2013 17:00

Soundwolf776 wrote:*facepalm*

Okay, it seems you don't have the game to check stats - so you write that Spados costs the same as Chasseurs FAMAS and mistake polish zmech and russian motostrelkis stats. But you can still see them on wargame-ee.com, database is still correct for infantry stats.


Yes Spadochroniarze cost same as Chasseurs FAMAS in cheapest version ofc. They both cost 20

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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Boogie Van » Sun 13 Jan 2013 17:03

There's so much uneducated opinion in the OP that I don't know where to start.

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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Gronank » Sun 13 Jan 2013 17:08

Shify wrote:Chasseurs Famas vs Spadochroniarze, in my opinion two most comon infantry units in the game right now.
They both cost 20 BUT Famas is more balanced infantry with their 8/8 acc against infantry and vechicles when Spadochroniarze well thay are only good against infantry (9/4 acc) but what is making the difference is the APC.
SKOT is only fast but it does not have any gun on it. You can ofcourse buy a version with a gun but you have to pay more. Basicly if you want your SKOT to be as good as VAB you have to pay 15 for it OT-64 SKOT 2A. So at the end you have a NATO inf unit whitch is good agaist both inf and vechicle for only 20 and PACT inf which is good only against inf for 30. You might point that SKOT is faster than VAB, it is by 5km/h but VAB have a range of the 1200km when SKOT only 710km. So basicly for every 2 PACT units NATO have 3 same as good as pact ones.

You got to do better than this if you want to convince anyone. First of all OT-64 SKOT 2A is terrible value for money, you don't need a gun on a transport and the basic SKOT is the most cost efficient transport in the game. Basic SKOT + spads for 20 is far more worth it for anti-inf purposes over Leg Famas +VAB for 30.
Secondly, the skot 2A has a 1.2km HMG and a 0.7km MMG, why you would want to pay for it is beyond me though.

Shify wrote:But lets take a look on some cheaper PACT infantry (and by cheaper i mean same as famas) witch is russian motostrelki. They cost 10 like a famas but their combat value is almost 0 (6/4 acc against famas 8/8) for tha same price! Can anyone explain that to me? NEXT

40 vs 20 availability. Next indeed.
Shify wrote:Fast recon inf on helis lets take 4 VPZU and Delta Force.
Delta Force (10/10) on blackhawk witch is going 350km/h cost 60.
4VPZU (9/8) on Mi-8t witch is going 290 km/h cost 60.
Why they both cost the same? Not only Delta Force is much better but it will be faster on field which as we know is crucial on some maps. Again we see example of NATO unit just better for the same price (4VPZU got better spot range OP!)

Get VPZU in SKOTs and they're affordable while retaining the awesomeness.
Shify wrote:PACT also have BMP espacialy BMP-1P and 1D. But as i sat at the begining im writing about early game first 3-5 minutes and BMP are too slow to get on the front line in forst 5 min, and we can only make 4 of each lol.

Oh boy, if I got a suprise for you. Go check what transports you can get motorelcis in. Also, roads are useful.
Shify wrote:HELIS!


Why?! Why again NATO units are cheaper and better?

Now, go on compare AA...
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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby zervostyrd » Sun 13 Jan 2013 17:14

NATO:s Helos is better and cheaper no doubt, but PACT even out this with mega BUKs and OSAs and Tunguskas. While NATO lacks good ground missile AA. And then PACT helos perform acceptable enough Imo.

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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Torrisco » Sun 13 Jan 2013 17:25

well i just can say that, i got some hints about some balancing works for infantry for the next patch/DLC but idk when. pact will recieve some buffs as well as some nerfs... same for nato.
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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Buck Turgidson » Sun 13 Jan 2013 17:28

There's one thing I can agree on, the Mi-2 Gnie/Sala prices. They need to go down.
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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Killertomato » Sun 13 Jan 2013 17:33

Buck Turgidson wrote:There's one thing I can agree on, the Mi-2 Gnie/Sala prices. They need to go down.


In fairness, they could go down to 25 and I still wouldn't waste deck space on them. :?
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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Re: My thoughts about the Wargame right now

Postby Shify » Sun 13 Jan 2013 17:38

Gronank wrote:
Shify wrote:Chasseurs Famas vs Spadochroniarze, in my opinion two most comon infantry units in the game right now.
They both cost 20 BUT Famas is more balanced infantry with their 8/8 acc against infantry and vechicles when Spadochroniarze well thay are only good against infantry (9/4 acc) but what is making the difference is the APC.
SKOT is only fast but it does not have any gun on it. You can ofcourse buy a version with a gun but you have to pay more. Basicly if you want your SKOT to be as good as VAB you have to pay 15 for it OT-64 SKOT 2A. So at the end you have a NATO inf unit whitch is good agaist both inf and vechicle for only 20 and PACT inf which is good only against inf for 30. You might point that SKOT is faster than VAB, it is by 5km/h but VAB have a range of the 1200km when SKOT only 710km. So basicly for every 2 PACT units NATO have 3 same as good as pact ones.

You got to do better than this if you want to convince anyone. First of all OT-64 SKOT 2A is terrible value for money, you don't need a gun on a transport and the basic SKOT is the most cost efficient transport in the game. Basic SKOT + spads for 20 is far more worth it for anti-inf purposes over Leg Famas +VAB for 30.
Secondly, the skot 2A has a 1.2km HMG and a 0.7km MMG, why you would want to pay for it is beyond me though.

Shify wrote:But lets take a look on some cheaper PACT infantry (and by cheaper i mean same as famas) witch is russian motostrelki. They cost 10 like a famas but their combat value is almost 0 (6/4 acc against famas 8/8) for tha same price! Can anyone explain that to me? NEXT

40 vs 20 availability. Next indeed.
Shify wrote:Fast recon inf on helis lets take 4 VPZU and Delta Force.
Delta Force (10/10) on blackhawk witch is going 350km/h cost 60.
4VPZU (9/8) on Mi-8t witch is going 290 km/h cost 60.
Why they both cost the same? Not only Delta Force is much better but it will be faster on field which as we know is crucial on some maps. Again we see example of NATO unit just better for the same price (4VPZU got better spot range OP!)

Get VPZU in SKOTs and they're affordable while retaining the awesomeness.
Shify wrote:PACT also have BMP espacialy BMP-1P and 1D. But as i sat at the begining im writing about early game first 3-5 minutes and BMP are too slow to get on the front line in forst 5 min, and we can only make 4 of each lol.

Oh boy, if I got a suprise for you. Go check what transports you can get motorelcis in. Also, roads are useful.
Shify wrote:HELIS!


Why?! Why again NATO units are cheaper and better?

Now, go on compare AA...


You Sir have no idea what this is all about do you? First im not talking about Lleg famas but about chasseur famas and if you think that extra gun on APC is nothing you are wrong! I said that if you want to have same APC as VAB you have to spend 15for it instead of 10 in NATO.

So what that PACT can deploy 40 motostrelki when they cost same as chasseur famas whan famas is way way better ?

And im talking about 4vpzu on heli not on SKOT you should read what im trying to say.

Compare AA? What about chapparal ? 70 for 4 valor ones.

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