Feedback on swedish units

plex
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Feedback on swedish units

Postby plex » Sat 11 May 2013 00:35

First of all i would like to congratulate Eugen on a great game with impressive unit detail. I would also like to thank you for the 25% deal for W:EE owners, this was a nice gesture towards the community.

However, in my work as an NCO in the swedish army i have used many of the vehicles in this game, and seeing as this is still a BETA, i would like to give some feedback on the swedish units. Ofcourse i do realise your limited timewindow and resources, so no more whine-threads will be made by me if you decide not to do any changes.

1 - Pansarskytte infantry have the 'miniman' ingame, this system was mostly used by units which had other main responsibilities than combat (like engineers for example). Instead, the Carl Gustav m/48 recoilless rifle has been in use by the "Pansarskytte" infantry since the early 50's, and still is, this should be changed.

2 - CV9040 with its 40mm autocannon fire undercalibre tungsten projektiles (like the ones modern MBTs use, but smaller). this gives the CV9040 a much greater armor-penetrating capability than the smaller 25mm bushmaster cannon for example (they both have 3AP ingame).

3 - CV9040 have a magazine of 8 rounds, which can be fired at 5rounds/second. The sound and visual effects indicate much more rapid firing(almost something like the MG3).

4 - The HAWK SAM system has been in use by the swedish army since the 70's, i dont know why this is missing from the game, but the result is a very weak AA capability for this nation.


Im sure you are covered waist deep in threads whining about 'their nation' needing buffs and what not, my intention was not to make another of those. I think sweden should be an underdog compared to the superpowers, but i felt i needed to contribute with these details to improve the historical accuracy further since this still is a beta.
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TheFluff
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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby TheFluff » Sat 11 May 2013 01:07

As MadMat's official "blame this guy if something is wrong with the Swedish units" scapegoat, I do believe I have some responsibility to answer these...

1. I'm well aware of this authenticity issue, but they (and Hemvärnet) both have pskott m/68 for balance reasons. For various reasons the grg m/48 happens to be the best unguided infantry anti-tank weapon in the game (because outside of Sweden, in the game it's mostly fielded by special forces and the Canadian AT teams), and if both the regular Swedish line infantry and the grumpy old men with Mausers had it, they'd both be either pretty overpowered or really expensive.

2 and 3. I fully agree and there is a long thread with a lot of numbers in it in the balance bug reports forum regarding the same topic. The problem with giving it AP 4 though is that it'd just absolutely shred vehicles with low or no armor, but then again the ROF should be nerfed a lot so maybe it wouldn't be too much of an issue, especially since it's only available in an otherwise pretty underpowered deck.

4. The game only deals with self-propelled weapons, and as far as I know the Swedish HAWKs were more or less fixed air force base defenses. The chassis in the game was never really fielded in reality either, it's mostly there to give the Danes any anti-air at all.

Hope this explains a bit why the game looks like it does! For the record, I'm not a developer, I do not get paid by Eugen, and I have no real influence over game design issues; I can just make suggestions like the rest of you. My contribution to the Swedish stuff in the game has mostly consisted of giving MadMat lists of cryptic Swedish military acronyms and complaining about the colors of airplanes.

plex
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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby plex » Sat 11 May 2013 11:13

Thank you thefluff for a good and informative answer!

1-4: i understand the balancing-choice with the m/48, and the swedish hawk systems are not self propelled, so that explains why they are missing.

2-3: Increasing AP on CV9040 and balansing this by reducing RoF and magazine size to 8 rounds, would be great imo. At the least replace the visual- and sound-effects to increase the feel for the 40mm AKAN, its not a machinegun after all.

Real life swedish 'Pansarskytte' tactics relay on the ability of the CV9040s autocannon to destroy enemy (non-tank) Armor on medium to short ranges(non AGM-territory). And like you said, since the 9040 is only available in this pretty weak deck, and since it is kind of expensive, giving it this buff probably wouldnt change the bigger picure too much.

Anyhow, its fun to discuss these things while ur away from home and cant play the game ;).
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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby swordsmandk » Sat 11 May 2013 14:06

TheFluff wrote:4. The game only deals with self-propelled weapons, and as far as I know the Swedish HAWKs were more or less fixed air force base defenses. The chassis in the game was never really fielded in reality either, it's mostly there to give the Danes any anti-air at all.


I do believe they where mounted on a trailer with suspensions being lowered to offer stability for launch.

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[EUG]MadMat
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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Sat 11 May 2013 14:08

TheFluff wrote:My contribution to the Swedish stuff in the game has mostly consisted of giving MadMat lists of cryptic Swedish military acronyms and complaining about the colors of airplanes.

Don't forget the 103's jerrrycans! :lol:

Yet, you're underrating your contribution: the Swedish battlegroup's TO&Es from the solo campaign owe you much more than just that ... ;)

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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Sat 11 May 2013 14:10

swordsmandk wrote:I do believe they where mounted on a trailer with suspensions being lowered to offer stability for launch.

They were:
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But only to move them around once un-towed. It can't be considered SP that way ...

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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby Dimonay » Sat 11 May 2013 14:36

TheFluff wrote:The problem with giving it AP 4 though is that it'd just absolutely shred vehicles with low or no armor, but then again the ROF should be nerfed a lot so maybe it wouldn't be too much of an issue, especially since it's only available in an otherwise pretty underpowered deck.

I honestly don't see how this is a problem it's 50 point IFV why would it not shred light vehicles? Even if it would get a price nerf I still think that it could easily get a AP increase. What is the point of it except killing light vehicles? Also it is a Swedish prototype so it will only affect Swedish only decks which makes it a lot freer when it comes to balancing. The Swedish deck has a lot of downsides I don't get why the CV90 should not even be a good side to playing Sweden.

what I propose is a price nerf to 35-40 and a ap buff to 4. Yes may make it a bit to good for it price but it is only possible to get it in a Swedish deck which has a lot of other things that a good player can exploit like lack of long range AA.

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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby Dimonay » Sat 11 May 2013 15:23

BTW did they nerf the CV 90's front armor I was sure that it had 5 front armor before?

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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby RedWarning » Sun 12 May 2013 02:28

One thing I find a bit funny is that hemvärnet uses mausers as their main weapon, but I presume this is for balance reasons as well.
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Re: Feedback on swedish units

Postby orcbuster » Sun 12 May 2013 05:31

RedWarning wrote:One thing I find a bit funny is that hemvärnet uses mausers as their main weapon, but I presume this is for balance reasons as well.


the mauser was in service with reservist longer than you think.
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