Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

goodman528
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Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby goodman528 » Sat 31 Mar 2012 22:25

I was wondering which NATO countries could have a playable deck on their own. Obviously the Soviet army can be a single nation deck, my Pact deck is almost entirely Soviet Union. However, what about the NATO countries? Would an exclusively American army work? or exclusively French? German? British? By playing single nation decks, I have discovered some units I wouldn't have otherwise used, maybe it will surprise you.

[American]
YES, an exclusive USA deck is not good value for money, but it would work. USA's biggest advantage over Soviet union is the ability to aggressively kill all enemy scout units. Max vet Chaparral + AH-1S Cobras + Bradley CFV + Huey Rangers will lock down Soviet scouting and win you the game.

--- Rubbish Infantry carriers, M113 series is slow and useless in combat, Bradley IFVs melt away to any attack.
-- Mediocre infantry.
-- All American units just eat up supplies, especially those tanks. They just burn up fuel like there's no tomorrow.

+++ M151A2 I.Tow is one of the best ATGM carriers in game (the other is BMP-1P). Groups of 1 or 2 with max vet, hidden and sniping.
++ OH-58D KIOWA Wr (hellfire scout helo) is definitely worth the 140 points. Good scout killer, good HQ hunter, and best of all, hellfire is fire and forget. Thousands of times better than Apache / Havok, with these babies you are almost guranteed to get your money back.
++ AH-1S Cobra is a solid helo, use it to aggressively kill scouting helos.
+ Bradley CFVs are good scouts because they can kill other scouts! If you kill a scout with it, you get your money back.

??? M11P Abraham is a better tank than the more expensive M1A1 version! It's 60km/h. Although MBT-70 is a better tank than anything from the Abraham series, just try it if you don't believe me.

[British]
NO, Surprisingly an exclusively British army would not work. However, they are very good in defence and can form the positions for your allies to safely retreat to, and support attacks.

--- No mobile AA
--- No suppression helo
--- No usable Artillery
-- Slow MBTs
-- No logistics truck

+++ Spartan is possibly the fastest off road infantry transport in game.
++ Greenjackets are amazing low visibility and low cost scouts, just turn off all weapons and move the spartan elsewhere.
+ Challenger tanks are very good if you won the counter artillery war and did a good job of killing scouts so they are not revealed until they hit the front lines.
+ Max vet Blowpipes. Good value for money, Just don't expect them to kill anything.

??? Lynx AH.7 Tow 2 is a very interesting unit. If you snipe almost anything you got your money back.

[French]
YES, surprisingly an exclusively French Army would work! They are lean and mean. Fast units, high damage output, high accuracy. If you took the entire NATO arsenal and formed the leanest army that would just about work, where taking away any one unit would make it not work, then the French would be it.

--------- No Scout helo, if there's one thing missing, it is a scout helo. Playing mono-French felt like I was playing with my eyes shut.

+++ Best NATO infantry all round.
+++ 2e REP are amazing scouts.
+++ AMX AuF1, at range 3-8km. Enough said.
+ A group of 4-8 Gazelle 34IF Cannon is actually better anti air than Marder Rolander 2.
+ AMX-30B2 has rubbish armor, however you should always keep them hidden, they are already dead before they even see you. If they see you before you see them, then you are not scouting enough! Also, remember to charge Apaches if you have no other AA nearby.

[German]
YES, but I will not explain why, because all of the tactics involved are very abusive, and makes the game not fun.

[Misc Observations]

+ Leopard 2 series has much lower fuel consumption than other medium or high end NATO tanks. Perhaps they are underrated by players. As Pact, I see a lot of Challengers and Abrahams, but not as often Leopard 2 or MBT-70s, and in my opinion they are definitely superior tanks.

+ Special forces infantry as low visibility recon is extremely useful, especially in team games. Remember, single units with all weapons off and move the APC/helo elsewhere, vision is much more useful than anything they might kill. Unless the enemy directly runs into these guys, they are simply invisible.

+ Scouting, in particularly scout helos are seriously underrated by noobs. I often have 85 points saved up just so if my scout helo gets killed I can call in another one immediately. No tanks, you might win; no infantry, you might win; no AA, you might win; but no scouts, you will definitely loose.

+ Logistics is seriously underrated by players who don't play ranked 1v1s. If you think you need one truck, buy two instead. Also, always remember to kill supply helos. In some games it is well worth it to go out of your way and loose 200+ points just to hunt down that Mi-26.

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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby SkylineR33FTW » Sun 1 Apr 2012 02:29

Really interesting post :) although you missed the SAS for the British and the Chieftain Mk 10 is good value for money :) Then again i tend to be a bit biased towards British units ;)
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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby Kovlovsky » Sun 1 Apr 2012 03:03

Good post, but I disaggree that the American's are the perfect scout killers, at least on the side of AA capabilities. The Soviet Buk is better at destroying the scout helicopters than the Charapal. Otherwise, your analysis is correct.

A French deck is very tempting, but I think it needs a lot of skill to be well played. While a full Amrerican deck is heavily geard toward all out assault, a French deck needs to be played with care. Their units are fast, well armed, but lightly armored and can loose badly if you try to use it for frontal attacks. The only tank with decent front armor is the AMX-32 and 5 is quite limited against high end Pact's tanks. You have to use soft tactics like encirclement, infiltration, ambush, sniping, etc. It's hard to do, but quite rewarding if well made.
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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby DeuZerre » Sun 1 Apr 2012 03:53

From a bit of experience (WoN events) Single nations can hardly work alone.

The US for example are strangely vulnerable to air. A US deck will rarely take AA infantry because of it'ss range advantage, but with chapparals out of the action (they have no armour so easy to break, and rather easy to overwhelm) the only other AA ends up with an incredibly short range, vulnerable to all ATGM air units.

British armies, I am completely against what you say. Sure, they are logistics dependant (and their chinook is the least cost-effective air supply) but they have their (bad) LAAD blowpipes that can come for 10 points on the battlefield. Depending on the map, these guys can become a nightmare for the opposition. Run, drop them, and watch them shoot randomly in the sky, scaring off anything in the area, like most AA does anyway. Their tanks are the toughest you can find for the price with good, strong guns. The artillery might be a bit lackluster, but it does the job, even the Abott that isn't too supply-heavy.
You also forgot to say they have the best Air Recon! +++


France sure has mobility on it's side, but will never work against someone using brute force. They will however hurt a lot before going down. In the right hands, they come from everywhere, hitting then retreating. A good nightmare. But Micro-heavy. A glass canon.

______________________

On the pact side, Poland can't do much, and Czechoslovakia has great artillery. But no means to do anything but infantry rush until they die.

USSRT might possibly be the only one that can work alone. With a bit of problems as its infantry isn't really the cheapest due to transports.
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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby Kovlovsky » Sun 1 Apr 2012 04:04

DeuZerre wrote:From a bit of experience (WoN events) Single nations can hardly work alone.

The US for example are strangely vulnerable to air. A US deck will rarely take AA infantry because of it'ss range advantage, but with chapparals out of the action (they have no armour so easy to break, and rather easy to overwhelm) the only other AA ends up with an incredibly short range, vulnerable to all ATGM air units.

British armies, I am completely against what you say. Sure, they are logistics dependant (and their chinook is the least cost-effective air supply) but they have their (bad) LAAD blowpipes that can come for 10 points on the battlefield. Depending on the map, these guys can become a nightmare for the opposition. Run, drop them, and watch them shoot randomly in the sky, scaring off anything in the area, like most AA does anyway. Their tanks are the toughest you can find for the price with good, strong guns. The artillery might be a bit lackluster, but it does the job, even the Abott that isn't too supply-heavy.
You also forgot to say they have the best Air Recon! +++


France sure has mobility on it's side, but will never work against someone using brute force. They will however hurt a lot before going down. In the right hands, they come from everywhere, hitting then retreating. A good nightmare. But Micro-heavy. A glass canon.

______________________

On the pact side, Poland can't do much, and Czechoslovakia has great artillery. But no means to do anything but infantry rush until they die.

USSRT might possibly be the only one that can work alone. With a bit of problems as its infantry isn't really the cheapest due to transports.


The problem with what you are saying on the British is that if the American are weak in antiair, then the British are even worse. Yea the blowpipe is annoying, but with nothing to actually bring down reliably the ennemy, you are vulnerable to a strong air attack when the ennemy don't want to be scared or if he bombards your blowpipe to death with artillery during his air attacks.

On the pack side, I actually think that the NVA is playable if you play aggressively, but the lack of artillery will harm you on the long run. Czechoslovakia is condemned to play defensively or do human waves attacks supported by artillery and Polish is even weaker than the NVA because of lack of effective armor and effective recon units.

At the end, I think that if you want to play as with a single country, if you should play in team with someone who take a country which cover your weaknesses or arrange a nations battle with your friends.
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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby DeuZerre » Sun 1 Apr 2012 04:08

Just saying the US lacks a middleground. Either it's huge range that eats ammo like crazy and easily damage, or it is extremely short ranged, made for ambushes.

For the brits, I said it was map dependant. Hamburger hill is fun for the British LAADs ;)
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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby Mitchverr » Sun 1 Apr 2012 11:11

For the bits i have to disagree a bit,

For logistics, sure no ground based stuff, but for me the chiinook is always a mainstay of supply line anyway, ground based logisitics are rare for me to use unless its really low points or a supply eating unit in the field like the chaps.

As for the challenger 1, you missed its greatest asset, it has 3 upper and rear armor iirc, this means it will suvive even 4 smerch tubers hitting them together with a scouted shot on top of that, those guys are arty proof and 1 of the very few units in game which will suvive that kind of thing and ask for seconds(i delib stick mine in the open to be hit by arty fire for this reason, as i know they will just laugh it off so long as i keep them protected from ATGM attack).

Chieftans like said by others, a great value tank, any varient wise, its the workhorse of my setup.

Abbot, this is a good arty piece, its cheap and nasty but brilliant in close support behind your line and take sod all supplies to fully kit out once its fired all its ammo aswell, unlike its bigger brothers out there in the NATO deck(also the direct fire ability if needed is good).

The only problem is the lack of AA, spam tanks and the strikers inability to hit anything unless sitting by a fob for constant resupply.
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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby quigglebert » Sun 1 Apr 2012 12:55

Mitchverr wrote:For the bits i have to disagree a bit,

For logistics, sure no ground based stuff, but for me the chiinook is always a mainstay of supply line anyway, ground based logisitics are rare for me to use unless its really low points or a supply eating unit in the field like the chaps.

As for the challenger 1, you missed its greatest asset, it has 3 upper and rear armor iirc, this means it will suvive even 4 smerch tubers hitting them together with a scouted shot on top of that, those guys are arty proof and 1 of the very few units in game which will suvive that kind of thing and ask for seconds(i delib stick mine in the open to be hit by arty fire for this reason, as i know they will just laugh it off so long as i keep them protected from ATGM attack).

Chieftans like said by others, a great value tank, any varient wise, its the workhorse of my setup.

Abbot, this is a good arty piece, its cheap and nasty but brilliant in close support behind your line and take sod all supplies to fully kit out once its fired all its ammo aswell, unlike its bigger brothers out there in the NATO deck(also the direct fire ability if needed is good).

The only problem is the lack of AA, spam tanks and the strikers inability to hit anything unless sitting by a fob for constant resupply.


This, personally, I compensate for lack of AA with Rardens vetted, that tends to leave choppers crying in the dirt
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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby Mitchverr » Sun 1 Apr 2012 13:50

quigglebert wrote:
This, personally, I compensate for lack of AA with Rardens vetted, that tends to leave choppers crying in the dirt


I generally use rardens as a hidden secondary support line unit, even when not vetted these puppies if used right can shred T80s in seconds and only have to kill a few high point units in order to be cost effective and anything which is cheap will die to them before they can return fire usually anyway.
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Re: Single Nation Armies and things you should do but don't

Postby goodman528 » Sun 1 Apr 2012 15:48

Mitchverr wrote:For logistics, sure no ground based stuff, but for me the chiinook is always a mainstay of supply line anyway... ...
As for the challenger 1, you missed its greatest asset, it has 3 upper and rear armor iirc... ...
Chieftans like said by others, a great value tank, any varient wise, its the workhorse of my setup.
Abbot, this is a good arty piece, its cheap and nasty but brilliant in close support... ...

For logistics, I find chinooks are just too big a target, and will get hit by BUKs and will give away positions for that corrected arty shot you really can do without. Trucks are slow, but they do have their place in the game. Actually the French also doesn't have logistics trucks, but the French just die instead so it's somewhat a non-issue.

Challenger and Chieftans are so slow they really get on my nerves. I have had hero Challengers that killed 10+ Pact tanks and held on to a ridge against overwhelming numbers. I have also had mass Chieftan charge that overran an entire sector killing everything in their path. However, it takes so much time for them to get to the front lines, and as soon as you reveal a challenger it will get Arty stunned every time you attack... ... it's just really frustrating.

Kovlovsky wrote:Good post, but I disaggree that the American's are the perfect scout killers, at least on the side of AA capabilities. The Soviet Buk is better at destroying the scout helicopters than the Charapal.


Chaparrals with max vet and a logistics truck is probably on par with a vanilla BUK, however the Soviet helos have a lot more health, so it's a two shot instead of one shot. As for scout killing, I find it's more the combination of Chaparral, Bradley CFV, AH-1S Cobras, and Rangers, and the fact American units are so expensive, it just encourages me to play the scout killing game a lot more.

quigglebert wrote:This, personally, I compensate for lack of AA with Rardens vetted, that tends to leave choppers crying in the dirt

Raden has no range, I rarely used them, but I guess they will get outranged and die.

Mitchverr wrote:I generally use rardens as a hidden secondary support line unit, even when not vetted these puppies if used right can shred T80s in seconds and only have to kill a few high point units in order to be cost effective and anything which is cheap will die to them before they can return fire usually anyway.

I think you mean striker, which is an absolutely terrible unit. You can buy a max vet Striker and hope your 60 points can kill a T-80, or you can get 2 I.Tows for 50 points which WILL kill that T-80.

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