Beginner guide NATO

Sithis
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Beginner guide NATO

Postby Sithis » Sun 1 Apr 2012 13:17

Since the beta i think i have now adviced around 30 players on how to built their first deck and what to unlock first via TS. So I just thought i´d write it up for everybody to have a look at and discuss.

Tanks:
This should be the backbone of any army. However the high-end NATO tanks lack the ATmissle capabilities of their soviet counterparts, therefore u need a few tanks as a meatshield to protect your firepower. Send those tanks first to spearhead your assault or to be your first line of defense. Giving them level 1 to enhance their moral is a good option since they will draw a lot of fire.
Good Tanks for this role are:

Leo 1a3: cheap but good front armor for its price
cheftain mk5: cheap and slow but good front armor for price
leo 2/2a1/2a4: and all round good tank but very expensive
i have talked to players who use different abrahams versions for the job, but i have personally never used them.

now that we have something to draw fire we need something to kill the enemy with and preferebly a lot of guns in case the enemy tries to APC rush you, but also something that has firepower in case u are up against high end tanks.
A good tank for firesupport is:
AMX 30B2: Great gun for little money (55) only 3 front armor but your meatshield is the one drawing the fire anyway. Also its fast so u can outflank enemies that are in combat with your main tanks.


In general:
Dont keep your tanks bunched up have your Firesupport a bit back and to the side to your main tanks so you can flank and are no easy target for arty.


Logistic:
An easily overlooked aspect of the game.
You should in most cases be fine with just one FOB, but if you remember Arty, TOWs and Helos eat supplies like no tomorrow.
Always have at least 2 HEMMT with your main force. 2 HEMMT resupplying and maybe another 2 on the way to keep your units from dying. Resupply the tanks while in Combat, works wonders on moral.

Also be able to field an armored com unit for the more forward control points.


Inf: (Edited to highlight further that Heimatschutz are Canonfodder and not a main Inf force)
You will want to take a look at Heimatschutz in Fuchs. Perfect Canonfodder. They are cheap(15), fast(105kmh) und kill any tank that comes close. Just get a few and before your tanks advance against the treeline send your Fuchs in as canonfodder.
If they died: Who cares 60 points and your tanks got of the first shot.
If they got out into the treeline: The enemy is dead...end of story and you can repeat that manouver for the next treeline.

They are also good to hold treelines or village entries since it doesnt really matter if they die due to arty, kill anything that enters the treeline with grenates and are good enough scouts to enable the second line of defence to shoot (for example Zippo)

If you want something with a bit mor AT and AP power get the FAMAS Legion. Almost impossible to route and a longer AT range. Any tank getting in range dies. If you are trying to hold any building some of those guys are your first choice. To conclude If you are trying to built a mainly Inf army due to Woodland terrain these guys are a good choice. You might also want to look at Jäger or some of the other French infantry, but personally I feel like the FAMAS Legion are the best value for money.

You might want to mix them up with ATGM dragons. The best guided missle AT Infantry the NATO has to offer. Easy to hide and about as strong as any tankhunter. Those mixed with some Legion Famas in a villiage will stop most enemy armies and give you the space to move your tanks about.

Spec Ops are a real matter of personal choice. Fernspäher my personal favourites since they only got grenates, therefore without micromanaging them they will remain hidden till enemies get way to close, unlike Delta Force who have better AT and will therefore be more willing to give away their position. Your choice depends on how you are planning to use them, but as mere scouts i advice you to go with Fernspäher since they are cheap fast in the Fuchs and the easiest to hide.

Support:
A must have in this game and there is no way around it: Chaparel
It is AAA with 4200m range. That a longer attack range than any Helo. Always keep a supply truck next to it to reload since it only has 4 missles.
Keep it a fair bit behind your forces let it do its job.

But since thats only 4 missles you will also need 2 Rolands that have lower range but more missles and a high rate of fire. Since they have lower range you will have to move thos up with your tanks.

You will encounter 3 different kinds of chopper players with your AAA:

1.A good player: will micro his Havoc and Mi9. He comes in for the kill notices your Chaparel fireing and will not bother you again as long as your Chaparel is up and supplyed

2.A bad chopper player: He will rush a lot of high end choppers at you. Mi24 or Havocs. Move your tanks back a little have your Chaparel get as many shots as possible and keep your Rolands hidden until they got a clear shot.
The Roland firepower will get any chopperassault that gets into range down in notime.

3.A noob: Will rush you with Gazelle or something similar and again the firepower and splashdamage from 2 Rolands will reduce his forces to burning scrapmetal.

In other words with these 3 pieces of AAA enemy choppers are good news for you.
Just remeber to move your AAA with your tank force.



Artillery:
DONT JUST DONT.
With a force of 12 tanks (lets say 4 leo 2a4 and 8 amx 30b2) every artyspam you see will mean you already won the game, because as long as you keep your spacing you supplyline and keep moving he will not have enough forces left to keep you from just taking his base.
Also even a smerch spam will only be able to stun 4 tanks if you do your spacing right.

The only players bitching about artyspam are bad players!
Any decent player will see enemy artyspam ... laugh ... laugh more... win.

It might be hard at first to get your momentum right without running into the enemy defence blind but with good scouts and a few Fuchs to waste you shouldnt run into major trouble.

However you might want to buy 4 - 8 AML 60. These little mortar carriers only cost 20 a piece can fire for a long time without reloading and need almost no supplies.
They wont kill anything i give you that, but as soon as enemy tanks stop to fire at you you can put mortar fire on them that will stun or at least panic them to make the fight a lot easier for your tanks. It also clears infantry out of woods. Just buy a few and move them just behind your tanks together with your chaparel and have them on a shortcut for quick firesupport.

Scouts:
Basically there are 3 types of scoutes
1.SpecOps were already covered in Inf
2.Vehicle scouts: You should always have one on station and I advice you to take an armoured one since they survive arty attacks more easily.
3.Heli scout: Can be very useful especially on large maps, but it takes a bit of skill and micromanagement to keep it alive against enemy BUKs. If you have some points to spare you might want to go with the Kiowa Warrior. It only carries 4 missles so its not good for assaulting, but its nice as an emergency reserve when you really need that T80 dead.

Helicopters:
A nice and cheap option is the Lynx TOW. Basically a cheap tankhunter with very good accuracy. Espacially good in defence when the enemy moved his tanks out of AAA cover towards your troops.
If you want more firepower and range the Apache is the way to got since the BUK is the only vehicle that is really a danger to it.

No matter what chopper you go for: Dont spend to many points on them. They will not hold a line and they will not assault a position! They are firesupport and they are good at it, but dont expect them to do anything else.
Never have a helicopter further forward than your tanks. Always operate them behind your own lines.

The only exception from this rule is the early game. When you want to rush a position, but you expect the enemy to do the same have an Apache hover over it. AAA are slow, therefore the Apache will be up against APCs which he can easily destroy. as soon as you see something stoping its likely to be an AAA. Just shoot 1 or 2 units to make his rush stop and then retreat. That buys you the 20 seconds to get into position.


Other Vehicles:
Gepard: Its a AAA vehicle with only very little range, but used within your tankforce it can stun enemy tanks and provides a little more AAA firepower.

M151a2 itow: The most cost effective tank hunter. Not very good to actually hold anythin but can move fast and hide easy. Put it in a bush wait for it to fire once or twice. Retreat and Repeat

Zippo: Perfect tool to hold a position. Have Infantry at the edge of the woods and one of these 20m behind. it will stun anything that comes close and i have destroyed 2 T80u once because they came to close. Also for30 points you can almost always afford one.


I hope this guide is helpful and keep in mind this is just supposed to be a base army from which you can start and find your own tactics and playstyle.
Feel free to discuss
or
PM me for advice.
Last edited by Sithis on Sun 1 Apr 2012 17:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Mitchverr
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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby Mitchverr » Sun 1 Apr 2012 13:57

1 comment, most is good but just the 1 thing.

Complaining about arty or losing to it doesnt mean you are bad, this is just asuming the guy on the other side is good with his arty, on maps which heavily rely on bridges or are smaller fronts, arty can be a real git if the guy knows how to use it especially if he uses it from a close support position (ie not from the other end of the map) as this means you dont get much time to move out the way and if its a heavy arty strike, it can and will knock out any light/med armor you have instantly, especially tube arty.

So far the only unit i have ever seen suvive a major arty strike (the kind that makes assaulting impossible because after the first hit you dont have the numbers to assault) is the challenger 1 tank due to its epic armor.
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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby gunnulf » Sun 1 Apr 2012 13:58

Sithis wrote:Inf:
You will need Heimatschutz in Fuchs. No way around them. They are cheap(15), fast(105kmh) und kill any tank that comes close. Just get a few and before your tanks advance against the treeline send your Fuchs in as canonfodder.
If they died: Who cares 60 points and your tanks got of the first shot.
If they got out into the treeline: The enemy is dead...end of story and you can repeat that manouver for the next treeline.


Really? No way around them? Sure you are not exaggerating? And there was me having never used them... Mainly due to having 4 accuracy on rifle and 4 on AT - basically just about the weakest infantry in game. There are plenty of other options & certainly not a no-brainer choice.

Sithis wrote:Support:
A must have in this game and there is no way around it: Chaparel
It is AAA with 4200m range. That a longer attack range than any Helo. Always keep a supply truck next to it to reload since it only has 4 missles.
Keep it a fair bit behind your forces let it do its job.


Again, to say there is no way round chapparal is simply not true. I can count on one hand the times I deployed them & very rarely in my deck now. They have range but as you say the fact that you have to deploy them towards the rear instantly negates that range. With only 4 missiles & horrible accuracy (needs to be vetted) then its an option, but not a no brainer. I'd rather have a mix of Marder Roland 2 & Flakpanzer Gepards 30 depoyed just behind the front line, & only then maybe add a pair of chapparal behind in support.

But the game is about choices, and the beauty of it is that there is no such thing as 'no way around it'. One person will swear flame tanks are essential & another will swear by the Burratino and another will never use either and be just as successful with their own blend of units. Otherwise some useful bits & pieces of advice for new players. But I cant stress enough - don't rely on Heimatschutz! I think the OP is just trying to make his life easier playing against you as Pact ;)

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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby SkylineR33FTW » Sun 1 Apr 2012 13:58

Great post :) only things i would add -

* The Chieftain MK10 is vastly superior to the MK5. They also have much much higher accuracy main guns.

* The Cobra series for Heli's is the better helicopter variants by far

Still really good post :)
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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby Sithis » Sun 1 Apr 2012 14:03

Well thats why I use Leo2a4 as my main tank the arty might hit them but not the 8 AMX 30B2.

After that it can turn out 1 of 2 ways.

1. He spend a lot of points on arty my leos are dead or badly damaged but he will not have enough points in the filed to defend against an attack of 4 Fuchs and 8 AMX 30B2

2. He spend few points on arty my Leo can still fight and therefore break the line.

Sithis
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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby Sithis » Sun 1 Apr 2012 14:05

SkylineR33FTW wrote:Great post :) only things i would add -

* The Chieftain MK10 is vastly superior to the MK5. They also have much much higher accuracy main guns.

* The Cobra series for Heli's is the better helicopter variants by far

Still really good post :)



true but the cheftain mk10 is also more expensive and using it in this cannonfodder position i like to spend little points on them.

I have only rarely used the Cobra and therefore not enough experience with them to incorporate them in this guide

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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby Kovlovsky » Sun 1 Apr 2012 14:31

Good guide and excellent post. However, I tend to support the idea that the Heimatscutzen aren't the best choice for a disposable infantry. I tend to buy Jägers with Fuchs or Chasseur with VAB as a polyvalent choice. They have a better AT capabily thanks to their rocket launchers and are infinitely better against other infantry. I also think that you are pretty hard with artillery. It's useful for dislodging digged in troops and distrupting the ennemy defenses. Aggressive tactics work well in early game, but if your initial assault loose momentum, the game tend to slow down and become more attritional. That's when the artillery enter the fray. The AuF1 is a pretty solid choice without ruining yourself, but the AML-60 is nice also.
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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby Sithis » Sun 1 Apr 2012 14:51

@ gunnulf

Like I said in the original post I use Heimatschützen because they are cheap and fast and looking at the stats there is no cheaper faster unit.

Yes different types of Legion or Jäger are not extremely expensive, have better AT stats and also come in fast APCs thats why I also recommended the Legion Famas.

The reason why I said that u need Heimatschutz is because even thought the other better Inf options are not a lot more expensive but they are more expensive and if you use them as cannonfodder anytway every additional point spend hurts.


About the Chaparel. Again if you look at the original post I said that it will scare of a good chopper player. I didnt say anything about killing lots of choppers.

The AAA you field do a very good job at killing choppers and I field them too, but if you look at the data of the Havoc and the Roland you will notice that due to the similar range a good Havoc will be able to out manouver your AAA.
True there are extremely fiew good chopper players around and I wouldnt count myself as one, but beeing save from them is worth 35 points per game to me.

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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby goodman528 » Sun 1 Apr 2012 16:11

Good post, and I agree with most of it. 1 thing I want to add is for logistics: 1 FOB for ranked 1v1, 2 FOB for team games, 3 FOBs for artillery, and 4 FOBs for artillery + helos.

Also, 3 points I have to correct:

1) Heimatschutz in Fuchs are not the best NATO infantry, I recommend that you try French chasseurs who are all round better and British infantry in Spartans who are faster off road and in forests.

2) Artillery is a MUST for the game. I don't mean 4 vetted MRLS + 2 scout choppers, which is abuse (and extremely effective in 4v4s and will kill all HQs). I mean a couple of Aux Auf-1 at 3-8km range, they cost 200 points and will give you the initiative, take out AA and ATGM infantry, and stun that T-64 at the most crucial moment when you attack. Oh yer, always target the T-64 series instead of T-80 series with your artillery, just my two cents from experience.

3) A good chopper player doesn't use Apache or Havok, which are very big targets worthy of artillery calls. A good chopper player uses OH-58D (140 points, hellfire scout) to snipe stuff, AH-1S (40 points, suppression) to kill enemy scouts, and 4 or more UH-1C (25 points, rockets) to suicide attack that single BUK.

I would tell noobs that scouts and logistics is the backbone of your army, you can win without any other type of units, but without scouts you are guaranteed to loose.

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Re: Beginner guide NATO

Postby gunnulf » Sun 1 Apr 2012 16:36

15pts on Heimatschutz + Fuchs is a false economy. Better to spend 20pts on something that can actually fight standing toe to toe. Otherwise you need to deploy 2 units at 30pts to get the same firepower (not exact I know but I think you can get the point). Likewise if your strategy is to scare helicopters rather than kill them then I suggest you are just shifting the enemy threat elsewhere picking away at your scouts or outlying units, or risk a determined attacker targeting your wildly firing chapparals, even risking a few loses and then operating with impunity. Scaring the enemy is no good if he doesn't actually get scared :) (can't scare a crazy man...)

And anyway the main thrust of my points were that you claimed there was no way around choosing those 2 units, that's simply not true and bad advice to new players in an otherwise fairly good post (aside from don't take artillery, but others have addressed that).

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