About the patch 443

grandstrateger
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About the patch 443

Postby grandstrateger » Thu 20 Aug 2015 11:41

My Dear players,

I've read that some of you are upset about the removal of the perma-stealth and the ambush mechanics. I feel really bad for you guys who like the Cartel and think it'll lose all interest. I also feel bad when you think the game is 'going casual' because of whining noobs.So here's what I think on this matter. And why I decided to change those two things.

1) Perma-Stealth:
Before starting, I’ve read that the hold fire option must be done to prevent the Spectre (and other stealth units) to shoot, in order to maintain their stealth. Note that this feature has already been updated in the game, and it’s automatic. Spectre won’t shoot targets unless they've lost their stealth or you order them to attack a unit.

So regarding the perma-stealth, (I believe from your comments that we are more likely to talk about the Spectre rather than any other units) it’s so powerful that it becomes obvious for all players to forsee counter measures all the time. So all players have to use anti-stealth units all the time. It’s not anymore a tactical choice, it’s an obligation. And this obligation requires attention to these anti-stealth units (i.e. be sure to have plenty of them, micromanage them to keep them safe…).
It’s not really about skill, about strategic creativity, it’s just about constraints. I consider that it is not valuable enough and it brings too much frustration.
Plus, I think removing the perma-stealth doesn’t make the Spectre weaker against good players, because they already were using anti stealth units.

2) Ambush :
The ambush system was based on the relation between the shooter and the target. If the target didn’t see the shooter, the shooter got 50% more damage.
The problem is that it raises the pace of all fights when they start if you have all long range units (50% more damage, so roughly 50% acceleration). As the mechanic was, every side was gaining ambush attacks at the beginning of the combats. So it wasn't really ambushing the enemy, it was more starting up a combat with a 50% bonus at the beginning. This acceleration leads to a more lethal combat. It reduces the falling back opportunity, and viable micromanagement… I thought this gameplay mechanic isn't interesting enough. That’s why I decided to remove it.

Finally, I wanted to tell you that we are looking very carefully to community feedbacks. We are dedicated to our game, we’re playing it a lot and we have high expectation for its quality. I hope the reason of these changes are clearer to all of you and why we are convinced it will improve the game.

Alexis Le Dressay
EUGEN BIG BOSS

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Gnougnou
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby Gnougnou » Thu 20 Aug 2015 11:58

Can you just put the AoW ambush system back ? It was easy and very ergo to use. I loved it.
Infantries were far more useful as you were able to put anti tank soldiers in bushes or building corners and gain 1.50 or 1.75 damage.
And right now, combat infantries like marines or felins are just bank-taker or rush-capture units.

And for the perma removal, I think removing it from Spectre only should have been enough. The problem is that they could easily take down your Littlebird or Ninja if you didn't micro them all the time.
Last edited by Gnougnou on Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:07, edited 4 times in total.

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Netput
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby Netput » Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:02

While i do understand the perma stealth for Spectre's being removed, it was not needed for other units. Those units lost their fun and sparkle because of it. Granted they did not do that much dmg any way, there is no reason to remove it.

As for ambush, units like Pumas relied on them. Puma's are quite weak already, without the initial punch they are even weaker. Same goes for more units. Therefore i would like to vouch for Ambush coming back.
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szalami1
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby szalami1 » Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:07

So you are the guy who deserved the unfriendly slap from me.

1.Abrams still sh*t the cost is 2 much

2.Amos useless (dmg like a old man who try 2 slap you )

3.Pumas now useless (dmg like a child who wanna jump kick your face)

IF you they looking for community feedback why you they didnt listen on "good players" feedback ? why only noobs? The ottomatic get 2 much nerf (i aggree with the hp and cost!!) but the dmg nerf... now i need 11sh a Javelin (5hp) Scorpios are just not good enough.. when the javelin or guardian get the sh*t missile upgrade they kill everything and outrange the scorpios!

If you wanna hear my thing about the balance (400 matches played +260 hour with game) we can talk also i have good friends here and we test the game all day all night we do many many things we read together the things about the game balance! you they just need a good squad for balancing the game! we are here we are ready for that we are test 4-5hour/DAY
my first rts games was on PS1 warcraft 2, c&c tiberum dawn,ra1 like my friends.
If you they wanna listen on us pls contact with us and make the game balance more better

(i aggree with the perma stealth remove and ambush system but give something else)

Best Regards
János László Hunyadi (Szalami1)

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Freefall357
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby Freefall357 » Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:10

I still have my gripes, but thank you for taking the time to give us some insight into the choices made.
It's an RTS, most of your problems can be solved with a scout, and a strategy adjustment.
Fail in those two things and everything will be OP.


...getting snarkier by the day...

atdsutm
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby atdsutm » Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:15

szalami1 wrote:So you are the guy who deserved the unfriendly slap from me.

1.Abrams still sh*t the cost is 2 much

2.Amos useless (dmg like a old man who try 2 slap you )

3.Pumas now useless (dmg like a child who wanna jump kick your face)

IF you they looking for community feedback why you they didnt listen on "good players" feedback ? why only noobs? The ottomatic get 2 much nerf (i aggree with the hp and cost!!) but the dmg nerf... now i need 11sh a Javelin (5hp) Scorpios are just not good enough.. when the javelin or guardian get the sh*t missile upgrade they kill everything and outrange the scorpios!

If you wanna hear my thing about the balance (400 matches played +260 hour with game) we can talk also i have good friends here and we test the game all day all night we do many many things we read together the things about the game balance! you they just need a good squad for balancing the game! we are here we are ready for that we are test 4-5hour/DAY
my first rts games was on PS1 warcraft 2, c&c tiberum dawn,ra1 like my friends.
If you they wanna listen on us pls contact with us and make the game balance more better

(i aggree with the perma stealth remove and ambush system but give something else)

Best Regards
János László Hunyadi (Szalami1)



The devs should at least listen to this guy.

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Araton
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby Araton » Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:20

I don't care man. You are cutting the testicles of this game one by one. Slowly getting rid of the most interesting parts of the game (boxing it in and removing interesting builds and possibilities) and ignoring real issues (e.g. useless units such as Pumas). I can agree with Szalam1, fully.

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Selkares
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby Selkares » Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:27

atdsutm wrote:
szalami1 wrote:So you are the guy who deserved the unfriendly slap from me.

1.Abrams still sh*t the cost is 2 much

2.Amos useless (dmg like a old man who try 2 slap you )

3.Pumas now useless (dmg like a child who wanna jump kick your face)

IF you they looking for community feedback why you they didnt listen on "good players" feedback ? why only noobs? The ottomatic get 2 much nerf (i aggree with the hp and cost!!) but the dmg nerf... now i need 11sh a Javelin (5hp) Scorpios are just not good enough.. when the javelin or guardian get the sh*t missile upgrade they kill everything and outrange the scorpios!

If you wanna hear my thing about the balance (400 matches played +260 hour with game) we can talk also i have good friends here and we test the game all day all night we do many many things we read together the things about the game balance! you they just need a good squad for balancing the game! we are here we are ready for that we are test 4-5hour/DAY
my first rts games was on PS1 warcraft 2, c&c tiberum dawn,ra1 like my friends.
If you they wanna listen on us pls contact with us and make the game balance more better

(i aggree with the perma stealth remove and ambush system but give something else)

Best Regards
János László Hunyadi (Szalami1)



The devs should at least listen to this guy.

They certainly will not if he continues asking things like that.
While his requests are reasonable, the "I am good player with lots of hours so listen to me and not to others" way of doing things is just bad.

Besides that, thanks Grandstrateger for the feedback!

szalami1
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby szalami1 » Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:31

Selkares wrote:
atdsutm wrote:
szalami1 wrote:So you are the guy who deserved the unfriendly slap from me.

1.Abrams still sh*t the cost is 2 much

2.Amos useless (dmg like a old man who try 2 slap you )

3.Pumas now useless (dmg like a child who wanna jump kick your face)

IF you they looking for community feedback why you they didnt listen on "good players" feedback ? why only noobs? The ottomatic get 2 much nerf (i aggree with the hp and cost!!) but the dmg nerf... now i need 11sh a Javelin (5hp) Scorpios are just not good enough.. when the javelin or guardian get the sh*t missile upgrade they kill everything and outrange the scorpios!

If you wanna hear my thing about the balance (400 matches played +260 hour with game) we can talk also i have good friends here and we test the game all day all night we do many many things we read together the things about the game balance! you they just need a good squad for balancing the game! we are here we are ready for that we are test 4-5hour/DAY
my first rts games was on PS1 warcraft 2, c&c tiberum dawn,ra1 like my friends.
If you they wanna listen on us pls contact with us and make the game balance more better

(i aggree with the perma stealth remove and ambush system but give something else)

Best Regards
János László Hunyadi (Szalami1)



The devs should at least listen to this guy.

They certainly will not if he continues asking things like that.
While his requests are reasonable, the "I am good player with lots of hours so listen to me and not to others" way of doing things is just bad.

Besides that, thanks Grandstrateger for the feedback!


okay read this again i dont said listen only on "me"

1. (IF you they looking for community feedback why you they didnt listen on "good players")
2. (also "i have good friends here" and "we test the game all day all night" we do many many things we read together the things about the game balance! you they just need a good squad for balancing the game! we are here we are ready for that we are test 4-5hour/DAY)
3. we dont need any pay we doin this for free.

d1spatch
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Re: About the patch 443

Postby d1spatch » Thu 20 Aug 2015 12:37

The two biggest changes were stealth and ambush, and honestly they needed to be removed. As for the other changes, I don't think all of them were entirely sensible. Chimera needs to be made more viable early game, Abrams do need some kind of cost nerf, and Cartel needs the Ottomatic damage regulated. Besides that, they need to fix unit responsiveness...You can't make an RTS game these days that doesn't put emphasis on micromanagement. Games are removing macro management, resource management, and focusing on micro management, this is what makes games popular these days. Why is DOTA2 so popular? it has nothing to do with macro/resource management and everything to do with micro managing a single unit. Even SC2 which had major elements of macro management is working towards removing them.

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