All factions

Dragonspeed
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All factions

Postby Dragonspeed » Thu 27 Aug 2015 12:25

I noticed some changes in the factions.

In the beginning there was USA vs Chimera.
They were evenly matched they needed some tweaks.
Then came Cartel
A lot of players were complaining about the perma stealth and they couldnt understand why the Cartel had that feature.

When i look at the game now.
Cartel is the weakest of all. They lost there stealth but didnt got anything in return. So there biggest strength was taken cause players didnt want to build detection units or saw there armies getting smashed. There second biggest weakness is that they must build there buildings close to each other. Destroy 1 building and the explosion will usually lead to a chain of explosions and the base is gone. I see a few options for the Cartel:

1. Have there rate of fire or damage increased.
2. Have there resource rate increased.
3. Get there perma stealth back.
4. Dont let the buildings explode/ make there buildings twice as strong so they can survive 1 attack.

if 1 is changed they will get more usefull for the game.

USA has the best tanks and no they are not too expensive. They are too cheap if you ask me. You can spam tanks as of defcon 2 for only oil. Usa can easly defend in early stages and attack of defcon 2 with ease.
Even at defcon 1 with a Stryker spam. There resource management is a bit slow in the beginning but when upgraded it runs perfectly. So again for defcon 2 the have a good resource management.
Overall i dont see that the need much changing as they have a pretty good army.

Chimera. When i first played it i hated the chimera. Later on i got that they are heavly relying on fast resources. They have good tanks for getting all the missles/aircrafts from the sky. They can see aircrafts, helos and arty from a long distance. They have good scouting possibilitys. They attack really good especially combining Tigre with Terminators. They can even inf rush you at late game with EXO soldiers. Overall the play nice. Same as USA they dont need much changing.

My overall look at this game:

Change something with the cartel or they will be useless against early rushes or late game spams.
Last edited by Dragonspeed on Thu 27 Aug 2015 13:32, edited 1 time in total.

AceRevo
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Re: All factions

Postby AceRevo » Thu 27 Aug 2015 12:33

Cartel is not really the weakest.. they just requre more skills and more strategy I guess you could say.. The devs even said that it would be more difficult to play as the Cartel before they were even here for us to play with.

Edit: Myself were also against the removal of the permastealth but it made sence for the fact that permastealth would only made detectionunits a mandatory but without the permastealth, detection units is now a strategic choise. If you micro well, your Spectre will do some very good damage with its long range of sight/fire, and now they will get a 2x damage when not revealed. . Just sayin.

Edit: for the ''US got the best tank'' quote, I did a 1v1 with a fully upgraded terminated vs a fully upgraded abrams (tusk2). The same Terminator killed 2 abrams and got abouth half of the hitpoints of the 3rd abrams before the terminator got terminated. So I wouldnt say that the Abrams is the strongest tank out there.. but then again, IDK :)
Last edited by AceRevo on Thu 27 Aug 2015 12:38, edited 2 times in total.

MrHyena
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Re: All factions

Postby MrHyena » Thu 27 Aug 2015 12:35

+1! Sad to see how easy it is to fix.

Dragonspeed
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Re: All factions

Postby Dragonspeed » Thu 27 Aug 2015 13:41

AceRevo wrote:Cartel is not really the weakest.. they just requre more skills and more strategy I guess you could say.. The devs even said that it would be more difficult to play as the Cartel before they were even here for us to play with.

Edit: Myself were also against the removal of the permastealth but it made sence for the fact that permastealth would only made detectionunits a mandatory but without the permastealth, detection units is now a strategic choice. If you micro well, your Spectre will do some very good damage with its long range of sight/fire, and now they will get a 2x damage when not revealed. . Just sayin.

Edit: for the ''US got the best tank'' quote, I did a 1v1 with a fully upgraded terminated vs a fully upgraded abrams (tusk2). The same Terminator killed 2 abrams and got abouth half of the hitpoints of the 3rd abrams before the terminator got terminated. So I wouldnt say that the Abrams is the strongest tank out there.. but then again, IDK :)


Cartel is hard to play yes thats true. I had a few strategy's when the perma stealth was there.
Now i can only see 1. and yes i tryed dozens. There are best at building there special weapon. Weakness. easy to destroy. Every strategy has an easy counter for the other factions.

For micro management. The devs dont want a micro managment game. They said it in several posts. Big problem. cartel is micromanagement. I know i can get some damage but if 8 abrams tanks roll against 8 spectre. spectre die. First strike they all fire at 1 tank not all different tanks.

I ask myself. How hard is it to build a detection unit. Not very hard. Even in Generals and C&C you need to have detection units. Purely to see the enemy's movements and act on it. Detection units are availbe in HQ at the very beginning. You only need to adapt with 2 or 3 detection units following your units. Not giving them the same move order. Then the spectre units must be combined with aircrafts or long distance AA units. Using a detection unit is easy and hard to counter for the cartel.

Yeah US got the best tank. They can attack helos and have the greatest punch against land units. They can be easly mass produced and faster produced then an upgraded terminator. When a terminator is not upgraded with the upgrade from there factory they pretty must are useless. The abrams got more range then the terminator when driving. Abrams must keep the distance and fire. If you let termies get close yeah you are finish but Terminator are must more expensive and slower then a Abrams. With all that in mind i call the abrams the best tank in the game.

AceRevo
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Re: All factions

Postby AceRevo » Thu 27 Aug 2015 13:55

Dragonspeed wrote:
AceRevo wrote:Cartel is not really the weakest.. they just requre more skills and more strategy I guess you could say.. The devs even said that it would be more difficult to play as the Cartel before they were even here for us to play with.

Edit: Myself were also against the removal of the permastealth but it made sence for the fact that permastealth would only made detectionunits a mandatory but without the permastealth, detection units is now a strategic choice. If you micro well, your Spectre will do some very good damage with its long range of sight/fire, and now they will get a 2x damage when not revealed. . Just sayin.

Edit: for the ''US got the best tank'' quote, I did a 1v1 with a fully upgraded terminated vs a fully upgraded abrams (tusk2). The same Terminator killed 2 abrams and got abouth half of the hitpoints of the 3rd abrams before the terminator got terminated. So I wouldnt say that the Abrams is the strongest tank out there.. but then again, IDK :)


Cartel is hard to play yes thats true. I had a few strategy's when the perma stealth was there.
Now i can only see 1. and yes i tryed dozens. There are best at building there special weapon. Weakness. easy to destroy. Every strategy has an easy counter for the other factions.

For micro management. The devs dont want a micro managment game. They said it in several posts. Big problem. cartel is micromanagement. I know i can get some damage but if 8 abrams tanks roll against 8 spectre. spectre die. First strike they all fire at 1 tank not all different tanks.

I ask myself. How hard is it to build a detection unit. Not very hard. Even in Generals and C&C you need to have detection units. Purely to see the enemy's movements and act on it. Detection units are availbe in HQ at the very beginning. You only need to adapt with 2 or 3 detection units following your units. Not giving them the same move order. Then the spectre units must be combined with aircrafts or long distance AA units. Using a detection unit is easy and hard to counter for the cartel.

Yeah US got the best tank. They can attack helos and have the greatest punch against land units. They can be easly mass produced and faster produced then an upgraded terminator. When a terminator is not upgraded with the upgrade from there factory they pretty must are useless. The abrams got more range then the terminator when driving. Abrams must keep the distance and fire. If you let termies get close yeah you are finish but Terminator are must more expensive and slower then a Abrams. With all that in mind i call the abrams the best tank in the game.


You just said how bad micro is that the Cartel needs micro and then you say how good the abrams is if you micro.. gg

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Re: All factions

Postby Dragonspeed » Thu 27 Aug 2015 14:20

AceRevo wrote:You just said how bad micro is that the Cartel needs micro and then you say how good the abrams is if you micro.. gg


I will explain everything i do to make a Abrams good and the spectre good. You judge what is micro.

With 12 abrams upgraded with tusk 2 and 4 little birds following 4 abrams. I give the move order to go to enemy HQ and line them up there.
Result: they destroy multiple structures and units. Usually they reach the HQ and hit that aswell. Something they destroy it.

With 12 spectre, i give the move order to go to enemy HQ and line them up there. They will reach the HQ and most of the times they dont fire cause of the hold fire option. When they are detected they return fire. They will be in enemy base. Destroyed a few building/ units when detected. Not detected they can destroy the HQ and several buildings.

If i want maximum result. I just can move order the abrams and need to micro the spectre. My opinion.

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noodlesocks
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Re: All factions

Postby noodlesocks » Thu 27 Aug 2015 15:50

I wouldn't say Cartel is weakest. You certainly can't play them like you would play USA or Chimera. They won't win with direct assaults against decent Chimera or US players but they have lots of other ways to achieve victory.
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torinus
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Re: All factions

Postby torinus » Thu 27 Aug 2015 17:08

Dragonspeed wrote:
AceRevo wrote:Cartel is not really the weakest.. they just requre more skills and more strategy I guess you could say.. The devs even said that it would be more difficult to play as the Cartel before they were even here for us to play with.

Edit: Myself were also against the removal of the permastealth but it made sence for the fact that permastealth would only made detectionunits a mandatory but without the permastealth, detection units is now a strategic choice. If you micro well, your Spectre will do some very good damage with its long range of sight/fire, and now they will get a 2x damage when not revealed. . Just sayin.

Edit: for the ''US got the best tank'' quote, I did a 1v1 with a fully upgraded terminated vs a fully upgraded abrams (tusk2). The same Terminator killed 2 abrams and got abouth half of the hitpoints of the 3rd abrams before the terminator got terminated. So I wouldnt say that the Abrams is the strongest tank out there.. but then again, IDK :)


Cartel is hard to play yes thats true. I had a few strategy's when the perma stealth was there.
Now i can only see 1. and yes i tryed dozens. There are best at building there special weapon. Weakness. easy to destroy. Every strategy has an easy counter for the other factions.

For micro management. The devs dont want a micro managment game. They said it in several posts. Big problem. cartel is micromanagement. I know i can get some damage but if 8 abrams tanks roll against 8 spectre. spectre die. First strike they all fire at 1 tank not all different tanks.

I ask myself. How hard is it to build a detection unit. Not very hard. Even in Generals and C&C you need to have detection units. Purely to see the enemy's movements and act on it. Detection units are availbe in HQ at the very beginning. You only need to adapt with 2 or 3 detection units following your units. Not giving them the same move order. Then the spectre units must be combined with aircrafts or long distance AA units. Using a detection unit is easy and hard to counter for the cartel.

Yeah US got the best tank. They can attack helos and have the greatest punch against land units. They can be easly mass produced and faster produced then an upgraded terminator. When a terminator is not upgraded with the upgrade from there factory they pretty must are useless. The abrams got more range then the terminator when driving. Abrams must keep the distance and fire. If you let termies get close yeah you are finish but Terminator are must more expensive and slower then a Abrams. With all that in mind i call the abrams the best tank in the game.

Like in any game where factions don't have same units you cannot just compare 8 abrams to 8 spectre and make any conclusions from that. What you can compare are specific times in the game (like 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes), amount of resources both factions have at that time and then all the options those resources can buy them. And that only if both players are of same skills.

8 Abrams vs 8 Spectre means nothing. If you don't understand this maybe you should NOT be giving any feedback on balance.

Dragonspeed
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Re: All factions

Postby Dragonspeed » Thu 27 Aug 2015 17:11

torinus wrote:8 Abrams vs 8 Spectre means nothing. If you don't understand this maybe you should NOT be giving any feedback on balance.


If you dont see past figures please dont respond without thinking.
I explain it just a little bit.
8 abrams is just an example.

torinus
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Re: All factions

Postby torinus » Thu 27 Aug 2015 17:17

Dragonspeed wrote:
torinus wrote:8 Abrams vs 8 Spectre means nothing. If you don't understand this maybe you should NOT be giving any feedback on balance.


If you dont see past figures please dont respond without thinking.
I explain it just a little bit.
8 abrams is just an example.

Use better examples. THis one is terrible.
Use the format I mentioned in last post. Also provide replay with it so we know you are not just making up stuff.

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