Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Cruelty
Corporal
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue 2 Jun 2015 16:08
Contact:

Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby Cruelty » Fri 4 Sep 2015 23:03

**LONG POST**

Dear players and developers,

We would like to use this thread to post our balance/bug/feature documents, so they are more accessible to the public and to the developers. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE DOCUMENTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN SEND AND ARE NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION. This is for viewing only and to give everyone an idea what we've been up too. Also, keep in mind that most of the problems and suggestions listed here have already been fixed or added! THIS IS NOT AN UP TO DATE POST! please refrain from stating the obvious :)

The official documents:
- Beta document (Patch v.446) (OLD!): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B20IoglqiIyCUG1Xd21COG0temM/view?usp=sharing

- Post Release document (Patch v.515) (NEW!): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B20IoglqiIyCNk1YTGY5NTRReUk/view?usp=sharing

For easy access we have taken the time to export the documents into this thread. Better sit tight, this is gonna take a while!

The BETA document: (OUTDATED!, posted for archive only)

Introduction & Disclaimer

This list contains just ideas we have discussed and agreed upon. Everything can be subject to change and all of these ideas are just to give you an idea of what we think. Please do not feel pressured in any way, this is your game.
We have split this first draft in 3 sections: The first will summarize the most important topics
with a small explanation, while the second is a compiled list of what we think are bugs, and the last section is a more detailed look at some general topics. We have decided to not include the faction specific topics, for the fear of overwhelming you with information. We will gladly give you this information if you so desire. Thanks so much in advance for hearing us out, we truly love your game and this is why we went to such lengths of creating list for you.
This list is based off patch v.446, disregard any topics that have already been changed or fixed.


1. MOST IMPORTANT:

• In-game timer
Timing your build order, knowing if you’re on par, knowing what you can expect from the enemy at certain timings would greatly help in the pro-scene.

• Chimera Prison healing ability not having a cooldown.
No cooldown on the healing ability, or the revive ability for that matter, makes infantry nearly un-killable unless they are killed instantly.

• Cartel late-game economy
Having a faction solely rely on prisoners for the 2 most important resources late- game can result in very varied outcomes when the prisoner drops are random. This topic is explained more in the topic about late game economy.

• Unit responsiveness
Units having a slight delay in responding to your commands makes it hard to micro, especially so for Infantry/Helicopters.

• Prisoners having a random chance to be dropped.
'Lucky' prisoner drops can impact the game too much. We know this is a large topic to discuss, and have therefore explained this in much more detail in the 3rd section.

• Stances (Aggressive/Defensive/Hold Fire)
Units having the option to not target buildings automatically is the main proposal here


2. Bug Fixes

• Since Patch v.446, Anti Air Infantry don’t auto target units, you have to actually target the air by right clicking on them, which is really hard especially if you need to target air units.

• Tigre’s are not shooting with their anti-tank missiles until you have upgraded them with anti-air rockets as well. (It could be a bug where the Anti-Air missile upgrade is actually swapped with the anti-tank missile upgrade, we haven’t tested this.)

• More on Targeting: Artillery sometimes keeps re-aiming and not firing a single shell.

3. General Topics:

• Tooltips could use some more specific details.
Extra information in numbers would greatly help. Some examples: how much chance do missiles have of missing when you upgrade countermeasures? How much more resources are added when you research deep drilling?

• The RNG of Prisoner drops is too varied between games.
We feel there is too much of a luck factor involved here, as it has such an impact on the game's economy.
• Possible fix: (alternatives)
• There should always spawn one Prisoner out of a vehicle.
• Buildings and Airplanes should also drop prisoners.
What if your opponent only builds turrets and airplanes?

• Late-game economy too varied between factions.
With the US and Chimera both having access to late game steady money income, and Chimera even having access to steady aluminum income without needing prisoners, we feel Cartel is in a big disadvantage late game. This relates with the randomness of the prisoners explained earlier. We love the diversity this game has between its factions, and definitely don’t want to generalize the factions, so we looked for other possibilities.
• Possible alternatives:
• Make the Cartel’s ‘Underground Stock Exchange’ in to a building that can actually exchange resources.
Think of this like a market, where you can buy other resources in exchange for rare earth.

• Units should only use roads when the player wants too.
The problem is that units will break formation now and it actually makes the micro harder when units use roads automatically, not easier.

• Units inside buildings shouldn’t be able to be healed from sources on the outside. (so this excludes the Punisher healing from the inside)
Having infantry inside buildings already provides a big defensive buff, If you add the healing from outside sources like the Cartel's Barracks or US' Dustoff,
• garrisoned buildings become impenetrable fortresses. This makes the game a lot more static.

• Defenses are too good. (especially US’s)
Turtling is proving to be really effective in today’s meta-game. Most of the units deal too little damage to defenses, especially those who are designed to take them out. (Amos, Mortars, Grenadiers, etc.) Also, the US’s ability to build MG nests everywhere is remarkably strong, and the Phalanx’s CIWS seems a bit too strong. Plus, the Chimera’s turret is almost impossible to take down with build in CIWS and an outpost repairing it.

• Display Waypoints Lines/Path.
Cosmetic change, not nearly as important as the other points, but would be a nice addition.

• Let us select multiple buildings and let us put them into one Hotkey group.
Late-game macro can be a bit stressful when you have 5 or more barracks and a multitude of other production facilities. We know this is a big ask to implement so we would like to say that this is purely for ease of play and does not hold a high priority at all.

• Split Observer Chat
So that the players cannot see what the observers are writing, and observers can have an easy discussion about the game. The ability to press enter to chat would be a great help to observers as well.

• Snipers shouldn’t be able to one shot the infantry squad units (Mortars, Grenadiers and Shershen).
Right now snipers are very strong, and the units mentioned above are not. We feel a realistic update would solve this problem.
• Can a sniper really shoot 2 units with 1 bullet? If this is purely a Balance decision on Eugen’s part, we can agree to
disregard this topic altogether.


• The removal of Ambush left stealth units a bit underwhelming.
Especially the Spectre feels weak. Off course this is a hot topic right now. We think a semi ambush might be a good idea. Only stealth units deal some bonus damage on their first shot out of stealth only. Excluding aircraft.

• Banks are not important enough.
Early game feels pretty slow right now, plus in team games banks aren’t a priority most of the time. especially late game (retaking banks that were lost)
• Possible fixes:
• One-time bonus in cash upon filling the bank with infantry the first time. (Could provide a small boost to early game.)
• Increase income from soldiers in it to $6 or $7
• Increase the amount of infantry slots in a bank

• Make more of a difference between banks.
• Right now the banks in the middle or the maps have more stock.
• Increasing their infantry slot size as well, would make it easier for players to hold those more important banks.

• Missiles in general shouldn’t be guided versus infantry.
Another realistic update that could fix some balance in the game. Shouldn’t Marines and Snipers counter ant-tank infantry? Now they get 'sniped' by rockets and missiles.

• Stealth infantry too strong when capturing buildings.
US snipers and vanguards being able to capture buildings while retaining their stealth feels really strong. Sure the experienced player will use the spacebar function to snap to the event as soon as he or she hears the warning, but that still
leaves selling the building as the only option if you don’t have detection nearby.

• What about having the unit lose its stealth as soon as it starts the capture process? (Could exclude the vanguard here since it’s a high tech special unit)

• Remove minimum range on some infantry.
We have noticed snipers and grenadiers sometimes glitching when trying to fire.
It continues to try and walk away from the unit instead of firing. Do these units actually have a minimum range? If so, should we remove it or adjust it? This relates to the targeting issues mentioned above with artillery.


Epilogue:

We would like to thank everyone who worked on this project with us and Eugen for allowing us to help you out. As well as creating a remarkable game that we feel will make a huge splash on release. Best of luck with the release, we are eagerly waiting!


The Post Release document

Introduction & Disclaimer

This list contains just ideas we have discussed and agreed upon. Everything can be subject to change and all of these ideas are just to give you an idea of what we think. Please do not feel pressured in any way, this is your game.
We have split this first draft in 3 sections: The first will summarize the most important topics with a small explanation, while the second is a compiled list of what we think are bugs, the third section holds some brainstormed ideas for new features. We also have a larger balance section, but we decided to leave this one out in fear of overflowing you with information, plus it has a few topics that were already mentioned in section 1. We can grant you these topics if you so desire. Thanks so much in advance for hearing us out, we truly love your game and this is why we went to such lengths of creating list for you.
This list is based off the Release patch v.515, disregard any topics that have already been changed or fixed.


1. Important issues that needs to be addressed:


• US Army


• Green-zone:
Main issue is defensive structures and some high hp structures that just gain too much. While other structures have a bit too little HP maybe, like Air Control Centers or maybe Logistical Center
• Possible fixes:
The increase to HP for buildings to 100% is too much so just increase the HP about 25-30%
• Still global, but individually upgrade structures, as in make it so each building gets their own increase in HP instead of a global 100%.
• An alternative is to make it like tusk 1, but for buildings. It allows balancing each and every building individually.

• MG nest:
Since there isn’t much that counters MG nests other than outranging it or having Tanks, it just gains too much value in the early to mid-game.
• Remove the Global placement upgrade.
Again, it takes too much effort to kill the MG nests in your base. You need a lot more to kill them then you need to build them.
• Possible fixes:
• Double MG nest placement zone near the refineries or base building zones instead of global range.
• Increase cost by 250 oil.
• The structure can be spammed a bit too much and too easily right now.

• Stryker MGs:
• Decrease its cost from 800/500 to 700/500 but increase the Tusk 1 to 400$
Default one is too expensive, total cost for tusk1 upgraded one is fine though.


• Cartel


• Cartel Eco:
Having better chance to get Prisoners is fine but only good for the late game and Cartel is having issues in mid game.
• Possible fix:
• Re-implement Black Ops providing faster mining rate for refineries, not more than 50% though. An increase of 25% seems appropriate after the prisoner change.

• Viper:
Cartel struggle early game vs US Recon Team and most Cartel gets the upgrade regardless.
• Possible fix:
• Increase their un-upgraded range to the upgraded range. Upgrade will only increase the damage.
This change would help early game and not really change that much overall.

• The tech tree is too difficult:
• Stealth lab should unlock the entire remaining tech.
Cartel tech-path is already very restrictive, actually to the point where they might have issues vs an opponent that rushes superweapons.

• Grinches:
Right now a single Grinch can take down helicopters way too efficiently.
• Possible fix:
• Decrease their AoE.

• Grinch struggle to be efficient vs Airplanes as their missiles sometimes struggle to chase down enemy airplanes, especially when upgraded with LOAL-HI
• Possible fix:
• Speed up missiles to be able to chase down airplanes, especially for the upgraded version (LOAL-HI)


2. Known Bugs


• General Bugs


• Observer mode is still bugged (if you switch visions you do not see buildings anymore)
• Can’t see resources on observer mode anymore.

• Aircraft
• Dropping payloads near hills miss and spread more than they should.
• Sending bombers to the side of the map and then retargeting their bombing run makes them spread their shots or miss the target entirely due to high turn rates.
• Aircraft bounce on the ground when re targeting them or right clicking on other aircraft.

• If you sell a production building just as a unit finishes building you lose that unit and its cost.

• Units don’t stay at maximum range when you right click, they only do so when you attack move.

• Ammo that is supposed to force infantry out of buildings is having trouble.
• White Phosphorus does not work vs banks. Needs to hit middle of the structure to work and only hits the walls of the banks.
• Tigre incendiary missiles need to be force-targeted on the middle of banks/buildings.


• Cartel bugs


• Valkyries won´t use their Anti Air Weapons when upgraded with "Pye wacket missile".
• Valkyries ground targeting circle on the ground does not match the weapon.
• X32 ground targeting circle on the ground does not match the weapon.


• Chimera bugs


• Tigre with anti-vehicle missiles and range upgrade don’t shoot their anti-ground missiles.

• Rhino tooltip says that they fire on the move but they don’t.
• Rhino weapon tracking radar says that it detects enemy arty when they fire except:
• NLOS-C’s are detected even if they are not firing. (Intended!)
• HIMAR’s aren’t detected, intended? (Fixed!)

• Valor´s on the tooltip say´s that it transports 1 light vehicle but instead can transport 2 pumas, bug or intended?


• US bugs


• Stryker ATGM Cost increased by 250 oil when NLOS upgrade finished

• NLOS-C, Excalibur Shells DECREASE accuracy of shells (Fixed!)

• HIMAR shoots while moving, bug or intended? (Fixed!)


3. Features


• General features


• In-game timer

• Tooltips missing actual numbers, e.g. how many missiles will counter measure actually counter?

• Patrol feature for all ground units

• Add Waypoints

• Defensives Unit stances

• Show HP of construction vehicles (shredders etc.)

• Airplanes should enter the battlefield in formation


• US features


• Nuke silo
• Upgrade available to increase slot limit to 2.

• Mortar
• Should be allowed to garrison structures, but with disabled weapon if balance issue.


• Chimera features


• Corax drone
• Reduce 3d model size of the unit.


Epilogue.
We would like to thank everyone who worked on this, Eugen for listening, and for making this amazing game. We hope this will help you make the game even better! Best regards, The PENTA Sports community team.


Thank you for reading. More to come when they release more patches! Keep up the good work EUGEN!

Ecoste
Corporal
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat 5 Jan 2013 01:01
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby Ecoste » Fri 4 Sep 2015 23:15

rito pls

User avatar
Megiddo
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu 23 Jul 2015 22:57
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby Megiddo » Sat 5 Sep 2015 00:34

thx for sharing guys.
Last edited by Megiddo on Sat 5 Sep 2015 02:16, edited 1 time in total.
That's the saddest part of the story. I was getting used to think, after nearly three decades of its existence, that the word "Strategy" was the main cornerstone of the RTS genre and golden age.

User avatar
noodlesocks
Sergeant Major
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun 17 May 2015 15:08
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby noodlesocks » Sat 5 Sep 2015 02:05

A lot I agree with. Especially cartel's late game economy. While it would still be luck dependent, I feel a non-lethal upgrade like the US and Chimera have would help a lot for Cartel. You get a lot of prisoners with them.

Tech tree is a bit naff too. Having to build air control to build skyguard doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Image

User avatar
ZxGanon
Sergeant Major
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun 17 May 2015 01:44
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby ZxGanon » Sat 5 Sep 2015 10:46

Took us a long time to create this and hundreds of games.
Gather My Cartel Children The Father Of Superhinds Is Calling!

Opticalx
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu 7 May 2015 01:41
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby Opticalx » Sat 5 Sep 2015 11:51

ZxGanon wrote:Took us a long time to create this and hundreds of games.

Yeah pretty much 1000 games +
Youtube - Opticalx

Opticalx
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu 7 May 2015 01:41
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby Opticalx » Sat 5 Sep 2015 11:55

Cruelty wrote:**LONG POST**
• MG nest:
Since there isn’t much that counters MG nests other than outranging it or having Tanks, it just gains too much value in the early to mid-game.
• Remove the Global placement upgrade.
Again, it takes too much effort to kill the MG nests in your base. You need a lot more to kill them then you need to build them.
• Possible fixes:
• Double MG nest placement zone near the refineries or base building zones instead of global range.
• Increase cost by 250 oil.
• The structure can be spammed a bit too much and too easily right now.


Just give it a power cost. pretty please!
Youtube - Opticalx

User avatar
ZxGanon
Sergeant Major
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun 17 May 2015 01:44
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby ZxGanon » Sat 5 Sep 2015 11:59

Something we haven´t send but would be also a improvement would be to increase the cost of Lightnings to +200 Aluminum but that is just my personal opinion and we haven´t discussed that yet.
Gather My Cartel Children The Father Of Superhinds Is Calling!

Ecoste
Corporal
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat 5 Jan 2013 01:01
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby Ecoste » Sun 6 Sep 2015 13:03

What do you guys think about capping in genral?

Cruelty
Corporal
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue 2 Jun 2015 16:08
Contact:

Re: Balance/Bug/Feature suggestion thread by PENTA community team.

Postby Cruelty » Sun 6 Sep 2015 19:36

Pretty cool mechanic, was unbalanced before, but now with the increased capture time it seems to work pretty nice now :) Its a nice way for your infantry to be useful later on in the game as well.

Return to “Act of Aggression”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests